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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| richardc wrote: | | Sony put those fans in to move a lot of air for a reason, to cool the beast. |
Hello Richard,
FYI, YA board (as BA board) is located inside a close aluminium slot enclosure where there is no fan pushed air within to cool the board. Also, all YA power supplies rails are generated from 6 independant on-board linear regulators. | macgyver655 wrote: | | Ok, so who all has a G90 that ic421 is believed to be the problem? |
Ron, I have another YA board that seem's to have IC421 failure. This board was sent from an Australian G90 owner six months ago and I'm unable to fix it because of the lack CXD305-127R part 
I still got no time to study your remark about "Write" signal, I'll try to soon, sorry for the delay !
All, Still no news from my japanese friend, I'll let you know  .
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Home theater enthusiast for over 20 years !
My dedicated HT room !
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richardc
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Hi John
I realize this, but the whole case heats up internally and heats other areas within.
I ran my G90 the other night for 5 Hours in an air condition room, when turning off the G90 I reached up and felt the outside case and it was quite warm at the rear which is where the YA pcb is.
And believe me I am not questioning your mod for one minute, I did install it and yes it ran very quiet, but the air flow at the rear was drastically reduced and I felt it was not enough, but thats just me being over cautious.
Yes I have the circuit diagrams of the G90 and yes Sony the supply rails are very well designed.
Richard
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Ron, I have another YA board that seem's to have IC421 failure. This board was sent from an Australian G90 owner six months ago and I'm unable to fix it because of the lack CXD305-127R part |
John, what were the exact symptoms of this board if you know?
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly the same symptoms as I've got on the defective YA board I had from Curt when I bought is defective G90 unit three years ago : shaking image convergence / brightness / Contrast / G2 / AQP / DQP / ....
Full story : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735051
John
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Home theater enthusiast for over 20 years !
My dedicated HT room !
Last edited by JohnHWman on Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JohnHWman
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 215
Location: France - Grenoble
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G90U (one unit for me, four others units repaired and sold)
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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After some MP discussion with Haydn, I found one interresting thing :
This other defective YA board I've got with IC421 failure was sent by oliverg in Melbourne ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1031447 ).
The CXD305-127R serial number that have failed on his board is the serial shown in the picture of the IC421 I posted on this thread ( https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=14696.html ), so #003A01E.
About my original YA board (that came from Curt when I bought his defective unit and chased for the same failure "shaking image"), I didn't take note of the chip's serial number at that time but on this post : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9578728#post9578728 , there is a picture of this YA board where we can see the serial number of the defective IC421 at the back : #003A01E wich is exactly the same serial number as Oliverg's defective YA board !!! 
Interesting finding, isn't it ??? Thanks to pointing my attention to this Haydn 
Now, Curt can you check Haydn's defective YA board what is the IC421 serial number ?
John
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Home theater enthusiast for over 20 years !
My dedicated HT room !
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Exactly the same symptoms as I've got on the defective YA board I had from Curt when I bought is defective G90 unit three years ago : shaking image convergence / brightness / Contrast / G2 / AQP / DQP / ....
Full story : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735051
John |
Not sure my G90 was exhibiting these symptoms that you're describing. From what I recall there was no problem with the stability of the contrast/brightness/G2 etc. They may have changed to some default setting but weren't actively fluctuating. And there was definitely no image 'shake'.
I can't remember whether or not adjustments to these settings were registering when changes were made on the remote.
What I do remember was that the geometry and convergence on each tube was not working at all. I could go from one end of the scale to the other and see no change on the screen. The adjustments for spot beam focusing were also not working.
Will be interesting to know the SN for IC421 on my board and see if they match John's.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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The one board I have here shakes bigtime, but the set doesn't turn off randomly like the one I sold to John did.
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have a working G90 that is willing to probe it and log some data? The attachment is a preliminary theory of operation for the controller chip. We could build on this and ultimately reproduce the chip. Got to start some place!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnHWman wrote: | Exactly the same symptoms as I've got on the defective YA board I had from Curt when I bought is defective G90 unit three years ago : shaking image convergence / brightness / Contrast / G2 / AQP / DQP / ....
Full story : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735051
John |
So is it safe to assume that this is why you want the CXD2309Q ic's? To see if it solves any of these problems. Also did you get them yet?
Also after you got your board back from Sony you said they replaced CXD305-127R and CXD2309Q. Could you tell if they replaced anything else on the board? I could see CXD2309Q as a cause for your dim problem.
Also to John and Curt with these image shaking issues, can you still adjust the alignment and convergence of the grid?
I'm going to be honest here and say that I'm having a tough time swallowing that ic421 is the culprit. I'm not saying that I dont think it is either but until its actually verified I'm not seeing it as the only possibility.
Even Haydn's no control over alignment and convergence is not an absolute that its ic421 as the definite cause. Seeing how there's no controls over these functions could be an address decoder problem to name one. Plus many others.
Now I wish I had bought that G90 that I passed on last fall just to use as a test chassis to see whats really going on here.
I think the only one who can solve this delima and verify if ic421 is the culprit is Curt. Why, because he has spare YA boards to pull a known good ic421 and replace it on a board that is malfunctioning. This would be an absolute verification. Question is, is he willing to take the chance on maybe damaging a good chip just to verify.
So for now I really have nothing more to say because we are just shooting in the dark on this. Trying to discuss a chip that has not been 100% verified. We know from what John said that Sony replaced ic421 on his board but they also replaced another chip and maybe some other components besides. Hopefully someone will attempt this and then we can go from there. 
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallllly leery of pulling a non socketed chip off one board and onto another.
I'll defer to John on this one, he's the data/CPU troubleshooting expert here. John, I have one defective Ya board here that I can send over if you want.
I did also have one customer recently looking for the same chip that sent it into the Sony tech, and he was also looking for that chip, to strengthen the case that this chip is bad, and fails numerous times.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Curt, this one board you have, is it the one with the shaky picture? Can you adjust geometry and/or focus on it? This isn't Haydn's board, correct?
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RogueChili
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Westfield, MA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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wow, sounds drastic and dangerous. I change these type of chips frequently, using the correct equipment, and suffer from occasional failures.
I would recommend verifying the failure mode using instrumentation and trouble shooting. Consider purchasing an extender card similar to the one in the attached pic. I have been using this extender in the process of tracking down the streaking problem with the 1292 and it proves to be invaluable. The jumpers allow you to attach probes, break signal paths, modify signals etc.
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Chuchuf
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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I am looking through the YA boards I have here to see if there is a correlation on the IC-421 serials as suggested by John. So far this is what I have found.
* Working and normally functioning G90 - 003A01E
* Second working and normally functioning G90 - 040A02E
* Docs (Michaels) normally operating G90 YA board - 040A02E
* Two YA boards that don't currently function (one is getting a loader error on startup, the other I may have messed up) - 003A01E
Terry
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HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| RogueChili wrote: | wow, sounds drastic and dangerous. I change these type of chips frequently, using the correct equipment, and suffer from occasional failures.
I would recommend verifying the failure mode using instrumentation and trouble shooting. Consider purchasing an extender card similar to the one in the attached pic. I have been using this extender in the process of tracking down the streaking problem with the 1292 and it proves to be invaluable. The jumpers allow you to attach probes, break signal paths, modify signals etc. |
Curt has the extender boards that John built.
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Chuchuf
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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macgyver655, you are in TN correct?? I'm in GA.
I have an idea that might allow us to track down Haydns problem.
I have a few YA boards here that have unknown problems, that we could possible use for parts.
What I lack is the equipment to R&R these parts, which I believe you have.
I also have a test bed G90(with burnt tubes in it currently so if we have a failure that collapses the beam no big deal), but I don't know how much longer this test bed will be here.
If we could get Haydns YA board and figure out a way for you and I together with yours and my equipment, we might be able to solve his problem.
BTW RogueChili, I have extenders for the YA board thanks to John.
Terry
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Chuchuf
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuchuf wrote: | macgyver655, you are in TN correct?? I'm in GA.
I have an idea that might allow us to track down Haydns problem.
I have a few YA boards here that have unknown problems, that we could possible use for parts.
What I lack is the equipment to R&R these SMT parts, which I believe you have.
I also have a test bed G90(with burnt tubes in it currently so if we have a failure that collapses the beam no big deal), but I don't know how much longer this test bed will be here.
If we could get Haydns YA board and figure out a way for you and I together with yours and my equipment, we might be able to solve his problem.
BTW RogueChili, I have extenders for the YA board thanks to John.
Terry |
OPPS sorry
Terry
Last edited by Chuchuf on Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've got one complete test chassis here as well, save for a working YA board (using a bad one here that turns the set on, but doesn't do anything else).
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuchuf wrote: | macgyver655, you are in TN correct?? I'm in GA.
I have an idea that might allow us to track down Haydns problem.
I have a few YA boards here that have unknown problems, that we could possible use for parts.
What I lack is the equipment to R&R these parts, which I believe you have.
I also have a test bed G90(with burnt tubes in it currently so if we have a failure that collapses the beam no big deal), but I don't know how much longer this test bed will be here.
If we could get Haydns YA board and figure out a way for you and I together with yours and my equipment, we might be able to solve his problem.
BTW RogueChili, I have extenders for the YA board thanks to John.
Terry |
Terry. After this weekend I'm not sure what my scheduling is going to be like. I'm in SC and about 5 hours from you so traveling may be difficult just yet. But if all parties agree here is my thought. If Haydn want to send you his YA board for you to test on your test chassis to verify exactly what he has, then send me his board and your parts board, I can swap parts based on our conclusion. If we believe its possibly ic421, then I'll swap that chip only for the first test. I'll then ship boards back to you for testing. A little difficult for now shipping back and forth but its a start. I'll now better after the weekend if there would be other options. Let me know.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | I've got one complete test chassis here as well, save for a working YA board (using a bad one here that turns the set on, but doesn't do anything else). |
WOW. That must be a pain in the ass.................
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Can you see the chip and touch it when it's running? If so, take a pencil eraser end and put pressure on each leg and watch for reaction. I'll bet the chip gets so hot that the legs are coming un-soldered from the inside just like the STK's in a NEC.
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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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