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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:31 am Post subject: Anyone else notice digital OTA can be a PITA? |
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I was trying to watch the New Star Wars cartoon on CTV. Over digital it kept Stu Stu Stuttering. I look out and it's snowing here.
Analog, little ghosty but it just works! Good thing for analog pass through on the ATSC box. 'Else I'd have to get of my azz and change the cables around. 
Now if the animation were just better on this show. Considering Lucas Art's is capable of better it's kind of disappointing. Especially Yoda.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Strange, I never noticed stuttering from OTA even in conditions were rain fade has taken place. I've only noticed it either from the source, or re-broadcaster (DirecTV). Interesting observation none the less. How do you know its not your ATSC tuner in fade cnoditions vs. the transmission reaching the ATSC tuner? What other ATSC tuner have you tried, monkey?
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Clarence
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3827
Location: Smith Mtn Lake, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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My mom still uses rabbit ears. She called last week raving about how great the picture looks... she was proud of herself for sending in for the federal coupon and then hooking it up all by herself. She loves the extra subchannels plus the fact that it came in crystal clear... my parents probably live within 20 miles of the OTA broadcast towers.
| WanMan wrote: | | What other ATSC tuner have you tried, monkey? |
The ferret is giving pet names? OK, Sawyer.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone else notice digital OTA can be a PITA? |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | I was trying to watch the New Star Wars cartoon on CTV. Over digital it kept Stu Stu Stuttering. I look out and it's snowing here.
Analog, little ghosty but it just works! Good thing for analog pass through on the ATSC box. 'Else I'd have to get of my azz and change the cables around.
Now if the animation were just better on this show. Considering Lucas Art's is capable of better it's kind of disappointing. Especially Yoda. |
Do you have access to a spectrum analyser?
That way you could take a look @ the digital signal you are getting and get the right antenna/ location to fix the issue. It could be a weak signal or ( if you are in an urban area) reflections that are causing you not to get a clean signal.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Nope no speculum analizer here.
The one thing I did notice is digital vs. the analog. the UHF antenna needs to turn 80-90 deg to recieve a good analog signal.
Its bright and sunny this morning (UGH). Most of the channels are back except Fox but I haven't fine tuned the antenna since last night. I'm still seeing a little stu stu stutter on a few channels. Just not as bad as when it was snowing. More digital macro block break up in single lines where as last night the whole screen was breaking up on some channels.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | Nope no speculum analizer here.
The one thing I did notice is digital vs. the analog. the UHF antenna needs to turn 80-90 deg to recieve a good analog signal.
Its bright and sunny this morning (UGH). Most of the channels are back except Fox but I haven't fine tuned the antenna since last night. I'm still seeing a little stu stu stutter on a few channels. Just not as bad as when it was snowing. More digital macro block break up in single lines where as last night the whole screen was breaking up on some channels. |
I think your signal is weak. Are you using a powered ant, or an amp?
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | What other ATSC tuner have you tried, monkey? |
I have two set up curently on two antenna's. The HDtuner in the living room is a Prime DTV PHD205 ATSC/NTSC mix which is really nice. It's on a silver sensor antenna with no amp. Clear picture on that one.
The tuner in my office here is a Zenith 901 with analog pass through. It's attached to a square 50db Phillips antenna in the window. That's hooked up to 12 feet of quad shield co-ax, then there's another 8 feet or so of QS to the TV my donkey.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | | What other ATSC tuner have you tried, monkey? |
I have two set up curently on two antenna's. The HDtuner in the living room is a Prime DTV PHD205 ATSC/NTSC mix which is really nice. It's on a silver sensor antenna with no amp. Clear picture on that one.
The tuner in my office here is a Zenith 901 with analog pass through. It's attached to a square 50db Phillips antenna in the window. That's hooked up to 12 feet of quad shield co-ax, then there's another 8 feet or so of QS to the TV my donkey. |
Pete Putnam... THE goto guy about OTA HD found some real issues w/ the Square designed HD antennas.
Check this out.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_c/Five_Antennas.html
CONCLUSIONS
If it wasn’t obvious before, it’s pretty clear now that Winegard’s Square Shooter designs, although more aesthetically pleasing to the eye than most antennas, are real compromises when it comes to TV signal reception. While they work moderately well in parts of the UHF band, neither antenna is a great performer on high-band VHF channels and both are largely useless with low-band VHF stations unless you use an accessory amplifier or have a close-in, line-of-sight path to the transmitter.
Surprisingly, the SS-1000 worked much better with the external Titan 2 preamp than did the SS-20000 with its built-in preamplifier. In most cases, the SS-2000 didn’t fare much better than its unamplified competitors.
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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh I should have linked to the one I'm using. It's an indoor antenna in the window:
Philips 50db
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ecrabb
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably only 15 miles from all my HD transmitters, and I have a pretty clear shot across a shallow valley to them. Still, I've never had any luck at all with the indoor/tabletop antennas - even amplified. I think they're just inadequate. I've been using one for the last couple of years until I decided what to do, but it's always been flakey. Some channels work most of the time, one channel is always trouble, another flakey most of the time... And it always seems to give me trouble when there's something I REALLY want to watch.
Yes, you could get a usable signal when the crappy little things when we were watching analog, but even when it worked, a little indoor antenna never compared to a decent attic/roof antenna. You always had an inconsistent picture... Sparkles, ghosting, noise... Always farting around with it to get the best picture. You just can't park a little antenna inside a structure with all the materials and RF inside a house and have it work well - especially with DTV.
The problem with them is they have very little inherent gain, but then use boosters to get the gain to something usable, and in the process, destroy the S/N ratio...
I didn't have time to do it before it got cold, but last November, I'd had it with the junk indoor flakiness and ordered a Channel Master Crossfire. As soon as it thaws, I'm putting it up on the garage and I'll be done with all the "rabbit-ear/loop" flakiness.
SC
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AnalogRocks
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Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I bought it to do a test with. I have 5 antennas here and 3 ATSC boxs with a 4th on the way. The Silver Sensor antenna works great in the window. This Philips needs to ge right against the glass or screen to work decently
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | | What other ATSC tuner have you tried, monkey? |
I have two set up curently on two antenna's. The HDtuner in the living room is a Prime DTV PHD205 ATSC/NTSC mix which is really nice. It's on a silver sensor antenna with no amp. Clear picture on that one.
The tuner in my office here is a Zenith 901 with analog pass through. It's attached to a square 50db Phillips antenna in the window. That's hooked up to 12 feet of quad shield co-ax, then there's another 8 feet or so of QS to the TV my donkey. |
And the stuttering is taking place on both of these?
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm using a ChannelMaster UHF antenna that's in my attic. For the run to the second floor location, its not powered. No problems even though the majority of the transmission towers are +35 miles away. I am using an amplifier, after splitting the signal from the antenna, to a run I use to use on the first floor, and like the second floor setup was problem free. This was with the ATSC tuner in a Samsung SIR-TS160, RCA, DTC-100, and also an integrated ATSC tuner in a Vizio flat panel.
I have yet to see experience stuttering in them. Now, I have experienced stuttering with the re-transmission of local ATSC channels coming to me via DirecTV, but this is by no means limited to the local channels. I'm experiencing it on HDnet, etc. as well.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard good things about this.....
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SS3000&mybuyscid=2733529832
Winegard SS 3000 Indoor UHF/VHF Antenna (SS-3000)
Winegards newest and best all-band indoor directional / bidirectional DTV/HDTV Antenna platform. Perfect for close range off-air reception in urban areas.
• Winegard "Scatter-Plane" to reject digital multi-path
• 90 Day Warranty
• Includes coax cable,stand, and power supply
• Response throughout VHF/UHF bandpass
• Receives and resonates indoor analog and outstanding DTV/HDTV signals up to 30 miles from the transmit source
• Reception for apartment/condominium dweller to receive digital broadcasts where line-of-sight to the transmit source is blocked
• Only 26.75 inches wide
• Weighs only 1.5 pounds
• Specifically designed to capture reflected off-air HDTV and DTV broadcasts signals
• Integrates an ultra-low noise amplifier design with an ultra-low noise figure for a DTV/HDTV picture
• Great antenna in urban areas where HDTV and DTV signals bounce off buildings
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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SC, that is weird. I used to get the Des Moines stations from Ames with a Zenith silver sensor sitting right on top of my tv, not even by the window.
We have been getting a message from our local NBC station that basically says in anticipation for the digital crossover they REDUCED their digital signal temporarily.
I haven't noticed anything because I have a large antenna that is amplified in my attic + cable QAM but still that seemed strange to do.
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