CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

jamsys · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152

Had a interesting conversation with Ken @ DVDO. The Edge has all of the capabilities of the VP50Pro, and in his words is superior to the VP50, thats if you dont need Analog Out or RGBHV in. The conversation came up as I was thinking of upgrading to the Pro for some of the other features....

As of now I dont have any sources that arent HDMI and with the toys found here, I output HDMI from the DVDO to my PJ

Edge = $799 Pro Upgrade $1200.00

Thoughts?

Zebu Fellenz · Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 2567

I haven't used either so keep that in mind, but if the Edge is that much cheaper than just the upgreade for the VP50 I'd go for it and run digital all the way. Any possibility of getting a demo unit, I would hate to have spent the money and found that it wasn't what I needed.

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Wait, is the $799 Edge Upgrade a trade-in path?

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

Will it do custom resolutions, refresh rates and sync timings? These are all essentials for many CRT users.

Mike

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject:

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject:

That might have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but I don't think separates have the advantage from a "signal purity" standpoint they once had. I'm not saying there's no difference, just that the difference, while possibly measurable, would be undetectable to the ear/eye.

I think the value to many separates setups comes not in the inherent "separateness", but in the higher price point that provides more R&D, better design and engineering, better components, and overall higher quality.

I'll put it this way... Do you really think the audio or video signals passing through Gino's $7,000 Pioneer AVR are in any way inferior to that of the audio and video from my $2000 Integra prepro "separate"? I don't.

In a way, in a home theater, because of the nature of the devices themselves, nothing is truly a separate. Everything has audio and video in it. I suppose you could keep the video and audio separate once it left the source... But, not with HDMI you couldn't.

I know what you're saying, John. I like separates, too. They're just not necessarily great for the reason we like to think.

SC

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject:

I'm not positive - I think I remember seeing a photo or two of it last year some time. Whatever it was, it was a BEAST. I hate him, too. Wink

Hey, speaking of Gino, where is he? I haven't seen any posts from him in a long time?

SC

Axatax · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject:

AFAIK, with the Edge, you're restricted to standard timings and what is provided by EDID. I can't think of too many (any?) CRT PJ's where standard timings are optimal - and no, I don't consider 1080i/720p60 optimal if you already have a VP capable of AAS with 72 or 96Hz for film.

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

jamsys · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152

My biggest question was if I was better off upgrading to the VP50 Pro or selling the VP50 and going with the edge. Here is a quote from DVDO

"The performance is the same, but the hardware is different.
VP50 is based on FPGA... very expensive component that can to re-programmed in the field.
EDGE is based off the ABT2010 chip which gets its technology from VP50PRO. Using ABT2010 is much more cost effective."

Also
"EDGE has the same deinterlacing and scaling performance as VP50. It also has Mosquito Noise Reduction, Fine Detail Enhancement, and Edge Enhancement as the VP50 Pro. It is also HDMI 1.3 compatible.

So EDGE will actually give you more technology."

That is where I am stuck....

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject:

It gives you that "more technology", but it comes at the expense of losing all the advantage that the VP50 has to offer. The VP50 gives you major capabilities when used with a CRT projector, those capabilities being custom refresh rates and resolutions, gamma control, and aspect ratio control. The EDGE does none of those things for you, and frankly, depending on your sources and what they'll output, may not do much of anything at all for you.

I'm not up on what the VP50 -> VP50 Pro upgrade will get you, but from where I'm sitting, there isn't much to be "stuck" on... You either want and will use all the VP50 has to offer you, and therefore it's worth paying the money for... or you don't want and need those features.

There are many people on this forum who would say they wouldn't even consider running their theater without a processor to do 48/72hz refresh (whether custom resolution or not), while there are others that run no processor and watch 1080p@60 and are perfectly happy (myself included). That's up for to you to decide.

That said, if you don't need or don't want the capabilities the VP50 pro offers, then I question what utility the EDGE even has for you. To me, the simple question is VP50 or no VP50. The EDGE doesn't seem to do much of anything that you really NEED. What would you use the EDGE to do for your system, exactly?

SC

jamsys · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152

Good points, I do like the added technology such the noise reduction (I have seen that at work).... Just seems a shame they want so much more $$ for what prob is only software

MikeEby · Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 5237 Location: Osceola, Indiana

I think Gino has a bad ass Denon not a Pioneer, but the same idea.

Mike

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject:

Oh, I think you're right, Mike. Yes, Denon not Pioneer. I just remember that the thing was about twice as tall as a normal AVR and had a bazillion connectors on the rear. I can't find the photo he posted, or I'd link to it. It was in a thread right before Cliffy flew over there to visit and help set up the blend, I think.

Jamsys... Yeah, it may be "only" software, but given the level of effort (and therefore expense) to develop and test that software, and given the relatively few units sold, the cost doesn't particularly surprise me. There's also ISF and THX licensing fees. If it makes you feel any better, the VP50 Pro looks like it has a couple of 12V triggers the VP50 doesn't have. Wink

I know what you mean, though.

SC

jamsys · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152

Hmm... $500 per trigger.... I think Niles does it cheaper... But I do get all your points. Sometimes ya just gotta say 'its just good enuf'
Scott

SilverFox2 · Joined: 14 Mar 2009 Posts: 1 Location: Yorkshire , UK

Hi everyone,

Using EDGE in UK for its PReP facility, ie the SD signal via satellite here arrives at 576i, but is converted to 576p by the HD STB to output on HDMI. Upscaling this flawed progressive signal (which was also compressed) is difficult to achieve properly.

The PReP reinterlaces then deinterlaces properly giving the scaler side of the EDGE chance to upscale the uncompressed and variable bitrate channel signal properly.
Because my SKY HD+ STB deinterlaces so badly, the difference is very noticeable.

Regarding its comparison with other products i have no idea, mainly because i have no way to achieve this but UK forum members using say Lumagen products for the same purpose (UK satellite upscaling) are disappointed and even consider using EDGE for its PReP capabilities only, thus enabling their more versatile Lumagens with this properly deinterlaced signal.

schmoe · Joined: 30 Mar 2008 Posts: 374 Location: Seattle, WA

I own both the Edge and a VP50Pro. Like SC said above, if you own CRT then you really need something more than what the Edge offers. I thought I could live without custom timings, but it turns out you really need it, if not for the custom res, then at least for custom back/front porch settings so you can avoid jail-bar ringing. And the VP50Pro has PReP too. At this point the only advantage the Edge has over VP50Pro, IMO, is two separate HDMI outs, one for video and one for audio. The Edge is a great VP and the price is right - unfortunately it's best suited for fixed-pixel displays.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY