CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[huggy]

I've done a quick setup,done the 17v and the 48v pots, and have a few questions;

1-Why is there not enough horizontal width at 720p?Image is cut off by 5 inches from both sides,even at 99 width.

2-Why is the active image larger than the raster at 1080p,I can move it in and out with phase but how do I reduce the active image to fit within raster?

3-I'm having terrible convergence issues on the far left of screen,its like the grid is rolling off.

4-Can I increase voltage past 48v to give me more image width?

As far as 2 and 3 are concerned,I can get it respectable via adjusting porches but is this what should be doing?


Dave

[huggy]

Well after doing a search I found this

Hi
The standard Crystalio II timing is more for a digital displays, the horizontal porch and sync widths will not suit the 1209s. The banding you see is called raster ringing; it is a function of the projector and quite normal with timings that have insufficient porch widths. Basically what you see if the start of the scan not being stable initially (from left to right), so there are “ripples” in the picture running top to bottom clearly visible on lighter colors.

I don’t have a tested 1209s timing, but here is a Marquee 1080p timing you might try (select the default 1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 timing then customise and click “Add” and the new timing will appear in the custom timing drop down list):

Horizontal total active 1920
Horizontal front porch 76
Horizontal sync width 150
Horizontal back porch 267
Vertical refresh rate 59.94Hz
Vertical lines 1080
Vertical front porch 3
Vertical sync width 5
Vertical back porch 32

The 1209s may not have sufficient image width adjustment for this timing, 99 on width maybe too small. If it is you will need to reduce horizontal porch and sync width settings. Try going down initially 20 pixels off front porch, sync width and back porch. This will add several cm of active image width. Use as much inactive horizontal pixels as possible, while still having enough image width with the projector set no higher than 95 on width.

Warning don’t do this unless you know what you are doing!: If the width voltage is set too low you may not be able to fix the problem as the 1209s is notoriously bad at having enough image width. If you know how to set the width voltage (correctly!) raise the default 48 volts to 52.5volts for more width. Do not exceed 53 volts or things may go pop. An early projector may exhibit width bounce (image width drops a little then springs back out again) at 52.5 volts, if this happens you must lower the voltage immediately.

When setting up, to remove or reduce raster ringing move the raster to the left and use horizontal phase to move the active image back to the right. Doing this allows the scan to start out of sight, so you maybe able to remove all ringing. Do not worry that the raster if off centre, only the final blanked active image is important for tube life and safety. If you go too far doing this you will see the right side of the active image start to disappear, this is because you are going off the raster with the active image, move the raster back to the right a bit to correct (and then phase back to the left).

Let me know if any of this helps.
Regards
Henry


This is exactly what's happening,can I just copy all these timing settings and increase voltage to 52?
I won't touch until I have conformation.

Dave

[zGman]

Hi Davud -

The max width pot is on the daughterboard on the SMPS,
just use enough to get what you need, too much will cause
instability. Try cranking in the green width coil also, you may
find an inch or three there (use a plastic screwdriver, metal will
heat up rapidly, affect the width, and possibly cause damage).

Video porches are indeed the key to getting the 1080P picture within
the raster, and will of course affect width and H. position (and height,
V position) for any resolution. This is very much a part of crt set-up -
particularly these days with the prevalence of very small porch digital
video timings. This machine will mute video however, if your pixel clock
gets too high, so there will be a limit to how much porch you can add.
I have an 1101 here though, and it will do 1080P no problem with
standard PC video timings.

The left side can be a combination of a few things - the barco needs
enough back porch to settle the beam. This can not only cause some
kinky lines but can create the vertical bands on the left. Also when
you are doing the zone focus, you may notice on either side that
the horizontal lines will start to twist and curl a bit when you crank in
the max settings - I found that backing off a bit on focus helped with
the edge convergence.

There will also be some interactions with astig - if you can use an
external grid pattern during that adjustment, you may notice that
pushing some of the zones will create some kinks.

One thing I found very helpful with Barco set-up was to set astig
and focus to midposition, and try for the best focus just moving the
focus coils on the tube necks - there isn't much play fore-aft, but
rotation can also make a small difference, and the incremental
gain getting this maxed will make everything else much easier.

And of course, taking the time to set the widths, heights, centering
and yoke leveling with all the elecronics set to mid-position is
really important. The most helpful feature is the 'coarse convergence'
Once you have your picture centered in the tube, and toe-in set, and
width coils matched you go to "fine" center zone to align the centers,
and then use "coarse" to set the linearity of red and blue to match
green, and then "vertical corners" balances the horizontal keystone
created by the red and blue aiming from off center.

OK, sorry if some of this is too basic - I just did it recently on my BG808S LC
however, and wanted to get it all down while it was in my mind.

Merry Christmas and happy CRT tuning!

Galen

[huggy]

Thanks Galen

I won't be touching astig etc...I'll let Russ,our local crt calibrator/seterupperer/geek do all the magnetics,I want to see a pro do it first before I attempt such a thing.
I really was hoping it was a timing and setup issue and thanks to confirmation my concerns have been eleviated.

I'm thinking of getting a cheap crt just for tinkering and actually doing magnetics but that's for another day.

Thanks again

Dave

[Mark_A_W]

Huggy, why do you want to run 60hz?

[zGman]

Hi Dave,

Glad you are having fun - there is electronic Astig in the service menu - you can play
with it to fiine fune your focus, and never open the chassis. It only affects the outer
zones and corners. Go ahead and put in an external grid and see how it works -
you can always go back - no need to worry.

Cheers,
Galen

[huggy]

[huggy]

[SisterOfMercy]

Do you have a 1200-style chassis? With my 1209s, all that was needed was changing the switchover point to the high scanning range, and a slight increase of the horizontal width on the SMPS.



Does this board look the same, and do you have a daughterboard with an pot on the horizontal board? Then you can use the high scanning mode. Horizontal retrace time is then 1.25 us instead of 2.5 us.

[Gary M.]

our Runcos are 1209s but do not have the high scan mode

-Gary

[SisterOfMercy]

Yes I know, but at first I didn't have a clue to what set the TS has. Checked his recent posts and found something about a 1209s.

You might want to ask Curt if he has these boards, so you can convert your Runco. For me it was a very easy solution to the curled raster etcetera.

[Stonefool]

You've got the hardware for manipulating the porch settings right (parts of the video timings)? Like an external Video processor, or HTPC, or the RTC2xxx or the like?

Considering how horrendous PAL porch settings are, it's usually the first thing to need to correct, before worrying about anything else, when it comes to image alignment.

[Gary M.]

[Tom.W]

[zGman]

Same video path & same video bandwidth = very nice machine - Runco firmware
mutes video anything over 1080P, but chassis will go considerably higher. I
put a 1208S/2 control board in mine one day, and it removed the scanrate
restriction no problem, and booted just fine. The "short retrace" option of the
BG1209S is really only needed for very high refresh rates and/or very small
video porches. Anyone with a good processor or HTPC should be able to make
the Runco versions sing very sweet...!

I have been meaning to ask TomW if he had the bit files for the BG1209S firmware,
I think that would be a quick fix for the Runco video mute - So, Tom - want to help
us out with that?? I have Terry's eeprom burner, until he remembers....hohoho!

And, for goodness sake, thanks to all you guys and girls, for such a great forum,
great posts, and so much CRT enthusiasm and amazing knowledge and tech info.
Happy Holidays, and a great dingdang New Year!

Best Regards,
Galen

[huggy]

[Tom.W]

[zGman]

Hi Tom,

I was just doing some testing on this 2002 1101 chassis, while it had the original toasted tubes,
and had a control board from a early 1208S/2 sitting around - popped it in and the machine
booted and worked just fine. I would like to find the bit files for the later 1209S firmware and
burn a chip, I think that will work and give me the new menu's and features and release the
Runco video mute over 1080P. Obviously it won't give the "short retrace" without the other
boards, but that isn't needed for our purposes. Without "short retrace" you have basically
a BG808S type system, which will happily scan to 1080P@72Hz or 900x1600@90Hz.

Anyhow, I was thinking that several years ago you had mentioned copying some firmware,
and thought you might have the files so I can do the experiment.

I don't see any difference in the V boards, and the main difference in the H board
is that the daughter board where the "short retrace" switching is done is not there,
and no connector soldered to the board. Unlike the 909 chassis, the switch point is
not adjustable in software - that point is controlled by a pot on the daughterboard.

Anyhow, its been a long day on the road - anyone who might have the late model BG1209S
firmware that I could copy??? Maybe even Dave's new friend the Barco tech???

Thanks,
G

[Tom.W]

I have the latest firmware chip installed in my BG 1209s. I can send it to you if you can burn a few copys but I have only one. Would hate to lose the original !

It also supports the Iris 3. I believe it is V7.20 but Mad Mr H says he has V7.23 and still waiting for a copy...

Sorry no e prom reader here ...

[zGman]

Hi Tom,

That is an incredibly generous offer, and I appreciate it a lot - it's the chance
of loss or damage in shipping that would worry me too much to try it....

A good idea to check with Andy though - and if no luck there, maybe I will
get my own reader/burner and send it to you instead....that would be safer.

G