CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

stgdz · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 107

I have been waiting for a motherboard like this for awhile. It has simplified my setup a bit more as now I just have one box and no more receiver or amp.

I have the amp version below and I have been really suprised at how well it sounds and the lack of buzz that I used to get from my nforce 2 with gainclone amp.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130206

The setup I have consists of a
4850e (board can only support up to 95w processor, it won't boot with 125 because the vrm's can't handle it).
2gigs of ram
7411 with amp
DVD drive
antec fusion 430 case

There is two audio chipsets on this board, the intel HD codec and the d2 audio chipset(amp or pre-amp). There is a long running thread over at avs about this board but it really really surprised me at the quality of sound.

**AnalogRocks**

stgdz · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 107

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:02 am Post subject:

You got any pictures of this? It sounds (no pun ) very interesting.

stgdz · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 107

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

I (as usual with htpc stuff) don't quite understand what this board does...What sound does it output and how does it output it? How does this remove the need for an AV receiver??

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

It doesn't remove the need for external amplification.

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

Does it do line-level to a 5 channel amp?

scottap · Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 177 Location: Palo Alto, CA

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

So the card has speaker connections??

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

Also, when the poster above mentions that he is really surprised at the quality of sound....in relation to what?

What equipment did you have previous? Can the sound quality compare with a mid-range receiver?

Ben

Java Jack · Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

Perhaps I can share a little insight for you.

Traditional PC audio has a SNR (signal to noise ratio) of about 70 dB and a THD (total harmonic distortion) of about 10%.

When you crank up traditional PC audio, you will typically hear a lot of rice crispies (snap, crackles and pops) and generally unpleasant audio.

Your typical mid to high end mainstream AVR from Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc. on the other hand will have greater than 100dB SNR and less than .1% THD. Don't just take my word for it, feel free to do your own research.

Now considering the specs of this platform...
Add in card options from MSI
5-Channel x 100W (AAIC100-5) Card
• 100W Peak, Channel Drive, 8Ω
• THD+N: <0.1%, 1kHz, 1W
• SNR: >105 dB
• Frequency Response: ±0.5 dB (20Hz to 20kHz)
• 93% Efficient Power Amplifier

3 Channel to 7 Channel Pre-Amplifier (AAIC7) Card
• High Quality Home Theater Performance
• Line-Level Outputs, 2.0Vrms
• THD+N: <0.01%, 1kHz, -6dBFS
• SNR: >110dB

You are talking true AVR class audio coming out of a PC. The audio coming out of this platform is absolutely stunning. It is very much on par with $700 to $1K AVRs from your mainstream vendors.

Now, I am not saying this solution is for everyone. If you are a super high end audiophile that spends $5K and an amp alone, then this is probably not a solution for you. However, the bulk of the real world consumer that wants a rich audio/video experience without breaking the bank, this is an extremely effective solution.

If you are using the amp card, then you do not need an external amplifier. This does offer limited input connectivity, but it does require additional s/w to bring these inputs in and route them back out to the amp card. While not yet available, it can serve as a true amplfierer when the capabilities are enabled.

If you are using the Pre Amp card, then you drive high quality audio out of the HTPC into your AVR.

Keep in mind, garbage in garbage out. Therefore, if you are outputting poor quality audio to your AVR, then the audio coming out of your AVR from the HTPC is not going to be much better. Howver, if you are outputting clean audio, then the audio from your AVR will sound better.

Now, certainly there is the all the rage to have single, HDMI cabled audio, multichannel, etc. However, this can have it's limitations. You are restricted to the capabilities of your AVR, and what you get is what you get.

This solution on the other hand is progammable...as D2Audio and MSI make improvements in signal flow or add enhanced audio features, this card is capable of being updated.

Again, while not necessarily for everyone, it is a platform that offers an outstanding audio and video entertainment experience.

As to my qualification? I am one of the system architects behind this platform. Yes, my opinion may be biased, but frankly speaking, very few that have experienced this platform have had anything bad to say about it. Most responses I get are extremely positive and these are from people that understand and appreciate good audio.

By the way, I actually moved my own Denon receiver out of my Home Theater room and replaced it with this platform and have been extremely satisfied with the performance. I am not affraid to eat my own cooking so to speak.

If you are interested in learning more, I have started a blog on the HTPC and will be discussing this platform in more detail in the near future.

http://blogs.amd.com/home/default.aspx

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

I always thought that a power supply was very important for a good amplifier...does a card like this put big requirements on the pc's power supply? Would a big beefy supply be needed here?

Java Jack · Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

Not really. That is because it is a class D digital amp as opposed to class A analog amp.

Class A amps are very innefficient. In fact, best designs are only 50% efficient, which means they need a lot more power becuase 1/2 of it is lost in the form of heat (which is why they have massive heatsinks and weigh a ton). Therefore, if a Class A amp is pulling 500W from the wall, only 250W are reaching the speakers.

Don't get me wrong here, good Class A designs sound amazing, but they are not efficient with their power usage.

Class D amps on the other hand are very efficient. This design is 93% efficient. This means that most of the power coming in is going back out to the speakers. Therefore, you don't need monster power supplies to deliver crisp, clean audio to the speakers.

I am running a 450W supply and it is more than enough power. I have 3 HDDs, an ODD, a 65W quad core CPU and 4GB of RAM, no problems.

What is important is to choose an efficient Power Supply that provides clean power without a bunch of ground noise. Most of your name brand supplies from Antec, Corsair, FSP, Sparkle, etc. will be fine. It is the cheaper ones for $20 that might cause issues. Not so much with the amp, but with your system in general.

It sounds amazing and video is crystal clear, no stuttering on Blu Ray or anything. This thing rocks.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:19 am Post subject:

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:25 am Post subject:

Java Jack · Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

Mark_A_W · Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject:

Ok, but FYI, my $90 M-Audio Revo card has NO hiss, and sounds basically identical to my Rotel Pre/Processor.

Java Jack · Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 5

Understood and I don't necessarily disagree. I worked with the guys at M-Audio several years ago on other projects. They are a bright bunch of audio engineers. However, I would classify their stuff targeted more to the prosumer and don't really consider M Audio a mainstream PC audio guy.

Again, my point of reference was pointing back to on board audio solutions. With this particular design, the on board audio is much higher quality than traditional mainstream PC audio solutions. Let's face it, PC audio has never really been all that important. Listening to audio over PC speakers was never that demanding. Therefore, mainstream PC vendors/ODMs have never really had to design high quality audio circuits before. Most of the PC h/w vendors in Asia don't have a lot of experience desiging high end audio stuff. They are starting to get better at it, but the reallity is they just don't have the in depth knowledge that someone like M-Audio or D2Audio can bring to a design.

The goal here was to bring a powerful, AV class audio experience to the mainstream PC user in an easy to integrate/use model. The platform is scalable by offering a 7.1 Preamp solution for those that have a high quality amp already or a 5.1 amp solution for those that do not have a nice amp but still want good audio quality.

Now, you can buy a uATX mobo for $75 - $90 then add a $90 - $300 add in board to get a good audio solution or you could buy this combo solution for $160 - $180 in a fully integrated platform and get as good if not better audio quality than many of the discrete card solutions on the market today.

I am not saying that other solutions are bad, just that the MSI platform offers excellent audio performance and is not only competitive to add in cards, but also competitive to mainstream consumer amps as well. As I said in my original post, this solution is not a one size fits all and may not be the best solution for everyone. However, I am confident that the audio on this solution is very good and that we will see this confirmed by reviewers and owners alike. The audio architecture of this platform was done by the guys at D2Audio and they are some of the brightest audio engineers I have ever met. Their CTO was one of the key technology innovators at Peavey Electronics for many years and worked directly with major record lables and recording artists before founding D2Audio. He brought together some of the best engineers from the audio recording industry to form D2Audio. It is those very same engineers that designed their audio chips and the design used in this platform.

I was just trying to explain that this platform does not rely on traditional PC audio codecs nor PC audio design. It really is a great solution for both audio and video without the need for a bunch of discrete add in cards.

As a point of reference, I actually have the Delta 1010 connected up to a digital audio workstation. I am very pleased with M-Audio's engineer and product development as well.

To me, these are different products for different uses. M-Audio for audio workstations, D2Audio for HTPC. Different boxes for different needs.

Mark_A_W · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject:

I did some reading on this new platform, and it's very interesting. I like the 7.1 pre-amp out version.

Or it would be if it had PCI slots. Where would I put my 3 HDTV tuner cards?

It would be nice if they made a full ATX version with a multitude of connections - like PCI, about 8 SATA connectors...the whole 9 yards.

My HTPC is a monster overclocked Q6600 with 7 hard drives and as many fans. And yes, it's on the desk in the next room. It's not very noisy at all, but it's not silent either.

Is it tied to the AMD chipsets? I'm long term AMD user, but this Intel Q6600 just awesome.