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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:28 am Post subject: Anyone have a digital/CRT dual setup lazy/tinker-time style? |
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Well, today I made a dreaded (at least I'm sure most here would say so...) decision and bought a digital projector. I know, I know, the horrors, but I've been running a little short of patience lately and after the blue tube imploded on my Barco last week, it became clear that it was time for a new direction.
So while the Barco's being parted out, I've still got this NEC 10PG that I'm thinking about keeping set up. It's just very hard for me to think about dumping it as it's in great shape and throws an outstanding picture. But, truth be told, some days I just don't feel like messing with the CRT. It just gets annoying at times. But some days I love it.
I'm thinking that perhaps having both might be best so on the days I feel like tinkering and chasing the best image possible, I can get down and dirty with the NEC. On days where I just want everything fast and streamlined with no excessive setup "distractions" that I tend to experience with CRT, I can run with the digital.
Does anyone else have a setup like this? Is it worth it? Part of me just feels like getting out of the NEC and being satisfied with a descent but compromised picture for awhile. Part of me wants to know what the thing would look like as an NEC PG10+ (still looking for boards! PM me...).
So heaven knows. We'll see. I'm over this Barco, but I don't think the 10PG will be going anywhere for awhile. I'd be real pissed if I ended up really hating digital after a couple months. This could be a good transition period before what's likely the inevitable. And hey, again, PG+ parts to upgrade to a 10PG+. PM me!
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-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:51 am Post subject: |
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What digital did you end up with?
IMO you would really have to have a nice digital even at this stage of the game to beat a properly setup and calibrated PG10. I'm curious to hear what you think of the digital and how it compares to the NEC in your opinion.
-Erik
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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gcom007
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Beverly Hills, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | What digital did you end up with?
IMO you would really have to have a nice digital even at this stage of the game to beat a properly setup and calibrated PG10. I'm curious to hear what you think of the digital and how it compares to the NEC in your opinion.
-Erik |
I got the Samsung somethingorother710ae. Apparently problem free after grilling, transferred warranty, paypal, shipping insurance...so here's hoping. I absolutely do not expect to surpass the NEC with it in any way other than ease of use and setup. That's kinda why I want to keep both around. I think it will be solid for the price I paid and the work it'll take to get a descent picture out of it, but again, I'm certainly not looking at it as a CRT killer. I just need to minimize some distractions that CRT's bring to my life.
And deep down I definitely am lashing out at the Barco over that imploded tube. It's a great projector. I got some outstanding images out of the thing, but man oh man, when that tube blew, it was like my kid Bruce Wayne see's his parents get killed moment. I was changed forever...
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-Elliot
Barco 1208s/e
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antorsae
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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I have a Panasonic AE2000 and the blend. I used the panny kind of a lot a while back before Gino's visit. Now that my blend is working very nicely - I no longer use the AE2000 at all.
I would have not gone digital with a single CRT - the blend is another story.
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1173
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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A digital pj could be used to setup Geometry on your CRT....
I may get a digital projector someday but not today.
What makes you think you always have to tune the CRT FP?
I can get a watch-able setup with 20 minutes from scratch and I don't spend lots of time doing it over anymore.
(I will soon start over though as I'm replacing my Horizontal Deflection board and since the hush box is down it's time for another start from the beginning just to make it great.)
-Brian
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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There are a few people with set ups like this. CaspianM over on AVS has an NEC XG and an Optoma HD7100. For lots of stuff where image "pop" is nice, he uses the Optoma, for much of his movie watching, especially dark movies, he watches the XG.
The Sammy you bought has lens shift, so if is quite practical to set up where they are both ceiling mounted and do not interfere with each other.
However, I would watch the Sammy for a few weeks before deciding if you want to do that. If you are watching from 1.5x width or greater and you can live with the poor black levels of that Sammy, I think you are going to be surprised--very surprised. To this day, the Sammy 710 has THE MOST film like image I've ever seen in ANY digital. The gamma curve is perfect, the colors are crazy wacky accurate, and it as exceptionally good shadow details.
I'm betting that you watch it for a few weeks then you are over in the digital forum reading my CIH thread. 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| antorsae wrote: |
I would have not gone digital with a single CRT - the blend is another story. |
Are you saying the hassles of the blend make you want to go digital, or is the word "not" not supposed to be in there?
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, just to add two other things about that PJ you bought. It outputs over 460 ANSI lumens in its best mode. That is a bright projector--even by digital screens. It would have no problem on a 10' CIH screen. If you get the bug, you can play around with CIH for an investment as little as $600 more--something to think about.
Secondly, not only is it perhaps the best looking--case wise--projector ever made, it is crazy quiet. In theater mode, it is 28 db which is about a human whisper--you'll love that.
Oh, one last set up thing, this PJ has a very impressive (for DLP) image shift range--it can be placed .25xscreen height above or below the screen in either upright or inverted position (so it can be rear shelf mounted above the screen for instance without having to invert). However, Joe Kane has said that on the extreme ends of the shift, he feels image quality (especially) uniformity is too greatly sacrificed and recommends keeping the projector no more than .05xscreen height above or below the screen.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I had that Samsung before...and it was pretty special. Color accuracy like you have never seen before...it was very, very nice. But the amount of people that had issues with it made me want to sell it off, so I did.
It was the best digital I have had to date. Even better than the Dark Chip 3 Planar that I just had...which was nice, but the Sammy was better.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | I had that Samsung before...and it was pretty special. Color accuracy like you have never seen before...it was very, very nice. But the amount of people that had issues with it made me want to sell it off, so I did.
It was the best digital I have had to date. Even better than the Dark Chip 3 Planar that I just had...which was nice, but the Sammy was better. |
I agree completely. It makes me want Kane's new 1080p Sammy, if it does not have problems--some day.
I know what he paid for it, and frankly, with the image quality of that thing, it was well worth the risk at his price point.
Hell, I'm actually hoping he does not like it as if it is a trouble free unit, I'll buy it from him. Yeah, on second thought--it is total crap, stick with the 10PG, you'll never be able to stand the black levels. Just read the posts here--all digitals suck--REALLY SUCK! Now that you realize what a piece of crap you have bought--PM me, I'll take it off your hands, don't even unpack it, just reroute it to me.
But, assuming I've not convinced you, here are some reviews with good info about it:
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/Samsung_SP-H710AE%20.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/samsung-sp-h710ae-projector-7-2006-part-1.html
http://www.projectorreviews.com/samsung/sp-h710ae/
EDIT: one more:
http://www.avscience.com/reviews/projector_samsung_sph710ae.htm
_________________
Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
Last edited by Person99 on Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | It was the best digital I have had to date. Even better than the Dark Chip 3 Planar that I just had...which was nice, but the Sammy was better. |
Which DC3 planar did you have? I'm guessing the PD7130 or PD7150? If so, that is basically the same projector as the Optoma HD7100 I'm using. And while it does have some aspects better than the Sammy (black level), I agree that the Sammy was in a class by itself.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I had a 7150....plus the 7150 was quite loud...which really, really bothers me!
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| benareeno wrote: | | I had a 7150....plus the 7150 was quite loud...which really, really bothers me! |
Yep! For what it is, I have two main complaints about the chassis (which is actually sold by 4 different companies):
1) too loud
2) poor shadow detail
I'm managed to fix much of number 2 with the 11-point gamma adjustments in the Lumagen, but it is still not perfect.
Since I'm doing CIH, I'd also prefer a bit longer throw--but I can live with the short throw.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | IMO you would really have to have a nice digital even at this stage of the game to beat a properly setup and calibrated PG10. I'm curious to hear what you think of the digital and how it compares to the NEC in your opinion.
-Erik |
It is a really nice digital. I've played with several 710s. They will beat a 10PG in pretty much every image quality parameter accept black level. They have crazy ANSI CR (630:1) as well as better shadow detail and better color accuracy than the 10PG. You will be able to squeeze a bit more resolution out of the 10PG, but due to the high ANSI CR and other things, the Sammy will appear in many scenes to have just as much (if not more) detail.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Man you guys make a convincing argument. How would the 710 stand up against a 9500LC? I'm moving into a house, finally, so we're talking about starting from scratch here...
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| CRT_Ben wrote: | | Man you guys make a convincing argument. How would the 710 stand up against a 9500LC? I'm moving into a house, finally, so we're talking about starting from scratch here... |
You need to move up a class of machine to beat the 9500LC. It is an impresive machine, but if the 9500LC is well set up--not that impressive.
Although there were people that moved from 9" CRTs to high end 720p digitals, I think you really need to consider something in the class of an RS2, RS20, or similar DLP to be happy.
In Elliot's situation the Sammy will be overall a lateral move or very slight improvement--but it will have some perks (brightness, shadow detail, etc). Against your 9500LC (especially if modded), you would not see enough improvements in the areas where it exceeds your PJ, to make up for the areas in which it is clearly inferior to your PJ. IMO.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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CRT_Ben
Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | CRT_Ben wrote: | | Man you guys make a convincing argument. How would the 710 stand up against a 9500LC? I'm moving into a house, finally, so we're talking about starting from scratch here... |
You need to move up a class of machine to beat the 9500LC. It is an impresive machine, but if the 9500LC is well set up--not that impressive.
Although there were people that moved from 9" CRTs to high end 720p digitals, I think you really need to consider something in the class of an RS2, RS20, or similar DLP to be happy.
In Elliot's situation the Sammy will be overall a lateral move or very slight improvement--but it will have some perks (brightness, shadow detail, etc). Against your 9500LC (especially if modded), you would not see enough improvements in the areas where it exceeds your PJ, to make up for the areas in which it is clearly inferior to your PJ. IMO. |
Ok, very good to know. I was having a small crisis here, visions of point n' shoot setups dancing in my head (also $$ from selling all my spares..). But I suspect that in the real world, selling off everything I have would be at least as much hassle as mounting and setting up the PJ, even aside from image quality comparisons. My 9500LC is not modded except for a red-C, but it's certainly a possibility in the future if I stick with it.
Thanks - I really appreciate your input and the neutral viewpoint you bring.
Ben
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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For straight image quality...a 9500 would definitely be better...but at what cost? A lot more money, a lot more time and effort. I certainly wouldn't buy one at this point in time, but if I had one...I wouldn't be upset to keep it.
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