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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 965
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:20 am Post subject: How Bad Does it Really GET? |
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I was reading a brochure on a current model digital and it noted/warned that less than <0.01% of the pixels may be dead.
So 1920x1080x0.01% = 20736. I'm I getting that straight, 20K dead pixels is considered acceptable? 
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Your math is actually off by a factor of 100. To find 0.01% of something you would multiply by 0.0001 not 0.01.
So 207.36 pixels may be dead 
Chris.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I think I would send one back for one. I've seen some really bad panel registration also.
Mike
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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What make model projector stated this?
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 965
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | Your math is actually off by a factor of 100. |
My bad! I thought that didn't sound right.
Does any manufacture warranty against say a cluster of dead pixels. If the pixels are some how grouped that would be a problem.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| AFryia wrote: | | nuttall_chris wrote: | | Your math is actually off by a factor of 100. |
My bad! I thought that didn't sound right.
Does any manufacture warranty against say a cluster of dead pixels. If the pixels are some how grouped that would be a problem. |
Generally you have to fight with them. Also, there are three times as many pixels as you guys are thinking on these devices (3 1920x1080 panels). Not all of the panels will always have the same pixel with issues. For instance, you may have a "stuck" green pixel which you almost never notice accept there is a small green dot on a fade to black. Stray stuck pixels are really not that noticeable.
Further, these are almost always LCD projectors which are the dregs of the digital world. You don't see many dead pixel claims with the other technologies.
So, I'm with Mike, some stray dead pixels are not THAT bad, it is the registration errors that I really hate. To me, that is far worse than dead pixels, especially if we are talking a mis alignment of 1 pixel or so.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | What make model projector stated this? |
Almost all LCD projectors have a claim like this.
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 965
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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It was the new JVC LCOS DLA-RS20U
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| AFryia wrote: | | It was the new JVC LCOS DLA-RS20U |
Yeah, LCD on a reflective backplane. I've never seen a JVC LCOS PJ with near that many dead pixels. It is a CYA statement.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | AFryia wrote: | | It was the new JVC LCOS DLA-RS20U |
Yeah, LCD on a reflective backplane. I've never seen a JVC LCOS PJ with near that many dead pixels. It is a CYA statement. |
"Cover your ass" 
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | AFryia wrote: | | It was the new JVC LCOS DLA-RS20U |
Yeah, LCD on a reflective backplane. I've never seen a JVC LCOS PJ with near that many dead pixels. It is a CYA statement. |
"Cover your ass" |
Yes. All the digi makers have small print about dead pixels and registration errors so they don't have to take returns or replace them. Some of them are almost always better than their "allowable" defects (like the JVCs)--others are not (I've yet to see an Epson 1080p PJ that I could live with due to registration errors).
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | So, I'm with Mike, some stray dead pixels are not THAT bad, it is the registration errors that I really hate. To me, that is far worse than dead pixels, especially if we are talking a mis alignment of 1 pixel or so. |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | So, I'm with Mike, some stray dead pixels are not THAT bad, it is the registration errors that I really hate. To me, that is far worse than dead pixels, especially if we are talking a mis alignment of 1 pixel or so. |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal |
But we are not talking about A stuck pixel, but rather 1-in-10,000, and that can translate into 191 stuck pixels before the threshold is met by the manufacturer. Also, if you cannot discern a stuck pixel then maybe your visual acuity needs correction to the four-eyed kind. 
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | kal wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | So, I'm with Mike, some stray dead pixels are not THAT bad, it is the registration errors that I really hate. To me, that is far worse than dead pixels, especially if we are talking a mis alignment of 1 pixel or so. |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal |
But we are not talking about A stuck pixel, but rather 1-in-10,000, and that can translate into 191 stuck pixels before the threshold is met by the manufacturer. Also, if you cannot discern a stuck pixel then maybe your visual acuity needs correction to the four-eyed kind. |
That is a CYA thing as said. You will not have 191 stuck pixels. On a JVC product for instance, you might have 4 or 5. And, you projector is not resolving all the 1920 horizontal, so you are in effect missing about 100,000 pixels of the image. Perhaps your visual accuty sucks if a dozen stuck pixels bothers you more than missing 100,000 pixels.
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="kal"] | Quote: |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal |
Incorrect, not a single bad pixel
Chris.
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | And, you projector is not resolving all the 1920 horizontal, so you are in effect missing about 100,000 pixels of the image. Perhaps your visual accuty sucks if a dozen stuck pixels bothers you more than missing 100,000 pixels. |
What projector are you referring to? My JVC RS2 has no problem resolving all 1920 horizontal and 1080 vertical pixels.
Chris.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | And, you projector is not resolving all the 1920 horizontal, so you are in effect missing about 100,000 pixels of the image. Perhaps your visual accuty sucks if a dozen stuck pixels bothers you more than missing 100,000 pixels. |
What projector are you referring to? My JVC RS2 has no problem resolving all 1920 horizontal and 1080 vertical pixels.
Chris. |
I'm talking to Wan and his silly bitching. No 8" PJ and few 9" PJs truly resolve all of the 1920 horizontal, certainly not with a high MTF. My point was he is saying a few (usually un-noticeable) dead pixels is completely unacceptable, but he seems to have no problem with projectors that drop about 100,000 pixels from the source.
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Dave
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| nuttall_chris wrote: | | kal wrote: |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal |
Incorrect, not a single bad pixel
Chris. |
I've not really seen many if any bad pixels on the JVC LCoS machines. During your research did you even come across that as a potential real issue?
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Dave
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | nuttall_chris wrote: | | kal wrote: |
Yup. At high rez's like 1920x1080 you don't actually even notice a stuck pixel or two.
Chris: You have a few on your RS20 right? (I thought I remembered you pointed them out). But unless you're a foot from the screen they just aren't noticeable.
Kal |
Incorrect, not a single bad pixel
Chris. |
I've not really seen many if any bad pixels on the JVC LCoS machines. During your research did you even come across that as a potential real issue? |
Doesn't seem to be an issue on the JVC LCoS projectors. I haven't seen a single post with a complaint about bad pixel over on AVS is the digital section.
Chris.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | nuttall_chris wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | And, you projector is not resolving all the 1920 horizontal, so you are in effect missing about 100,000 pixels of the image. Perhaps your visual accuty sucks if a dozen stuck pixels bothers you more than missing 100,000 pixels. |
What projector are you referring to? My JVC RS2 has no problem resolving all 1920 horizontal and 1080 vertical pixels.
Chris. |
I'm talking to Wan and his silly bitching. No 8" PJ and few 9" PJs truly resolve all of the 1920 horizontal, certainly not with a high MTF. My point was he is saying a few (usually un-noticeable) dead pixels is completely unacceptable, but he seems to have no problem with projectors that drop about 100,000 pixels from the source. |
My silly bitching has nothing to do with CRTs. It has to do with my ability to resolve individual pixels when a stuck pixel is in contrast to the field surrounding it. I do not make it a habit of sitting so far back from a projected image to lose resolution. And I have owned a couple of digitals. Did I not keep them because of bad pixels? No, but the fear was always there.
I say roll the dice and eat some cake. 
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