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jkruger



Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Moby,
Do what macgyver655 says, It's the best way to set up your pj. I have done it that way a half dozen times and it really does work well.
No need for a formula, just maximize the rasters first and then set the distance to match the screen size.
If you are not comfortable doing it yet just ask more questions and we will try to walk you thru it.

Some of the negativity here scared me at first too. Now I guess I just try to flip it back at them or just ignore it.
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Person99



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject:

macgyver655 wrote:
Wow. I'm kinda surprised at some of the negativity here. If you dont want to help then thats fine but dont throw water on his fire. I'm sure there are many others on here more then willing to help him through the process.


Actually, our "negativity" is design to help him get the best picture possible in a realistic way. The simple fact is, if you cannot understand the factory through formulas for TD, there is no way in hell you are going to be able to do proper mechanical set up (including astig, etc). Seriously, if you don't agree with this, you are in a fantasy world. That means, he can have a PJ that looks like crap, or he can:
1) Get someone that knows what they are doing to set it up.
2) Buy and easier to set up PJ.

The simple fact is, 4 years ago a poorly set up CRT looked better than almost all digitals. That is not the case anymore. A poorly set up 9" machine looks worse than a $1500 used 1080p digital. That's the facts Jack!

macgyver655 wrote:
As far as the throw distance, lets give him the correct process. If screen size is already chosen, then fire up the projector and turn off the blue and red tubes and concentrate on the green. Learn how to center and maximize the raster on the green. When that is accomplished then project the green image on the screen and move the projector forward or backwards until the image fills the screen. Now you have your throw distance and no math was involved and it was accomplished correctly.


Um, did you read any of my other posts? My second post in this thread (yesterday afternoon) said exactly this.

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Dave

A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject:

jkruger wrote:
Moby,
Do what macgyver655 says, It's the best way to set up your pj.


Yeah sure, do what macgyver655 says. Who gives a f*ck that he said the exact same thing I said 18 hours before him, do what he says. Why do I bother (yes, insert smart ass comments here, and you are right, I will stop bothering)?

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Dave

A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508


Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject:

Funny Dave how you chimed in on my negativity comment when I didnt mention any names. Plus your subsequent post told him to get a pro or sell it. How is that helping him other then making him feel incompetent. If he wants to take on the challenge then good for him, but telling him he is unable to just doesn't sound right. And if you want the credit for the throw distance post, you can have it. I'm not looking for any credit on here. I just enjoy helping others who are asking for it.
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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508


Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Plus if you want me to believe that giving any negativity to someone is helping them, then I'd have to be in a fantasy world.....................................
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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508


Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Person99 wrote:


The simple fact is, 4 years ago a poorly set up CRT looked better than almost all digitals. That is not the case anymore. A poorly set up 9" machine looks worse than a $1500 used 1080p digital. That's the facts Jack!



I must of missed the post where he asked your opinion on this. Sorry.....................................
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tommo2



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Ireland

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Nearly every newbie has the same question.
Here is a response I made to a similar topic a while ago. Just do the first few steps with the projector on the floor until you can calculate approximate throw distance. Then, if you can set it up on the ceiling at this distance you can go from there:


The very first thing you need to do with that projector is delete all memory blocks.
The barco projectors store settings for different resolutions in memory, and once you have set a couple of different resolutions, it uses this info to "guess" convergence and geometry settings for a different resolution.
If you delete all the old stored data, it will make the setup of new resolutions so much easier.

All settings should be now at default (50)

Okay, go into service menu and select "delete all blocks". Next, decide what resolution you will be running (probably 1080i or 720. Lets say 1080i for now. Do not use the internal patterns for geometry settings, they are never accurate.
Send a 1080i signal 60hz to the projector.
Ensure the projector is perfectly square and centered on your screen.
Increase H width and V height (think this is called V size) to 90. Project a green screen. Do a quick mechanical focus on green. Move the projector away from or towards your screen until it fills the screen. (ignore and skew/keystone for now). Remove the green lense and increase raster size until it is 1/4 inch away from phosphor edge and perfectly centered. Now put the lens back on and move projector back/forth until screen is filled. Focus again.
Do a quick geometry setup on green, and increase h and V size to 95. Now move projector back/forth until the screen is filled again. Do green focus again. This is the projectors final distance from screen, and ensures you use as much phosphor as possible. Leaving V and H size controls at 95 allows a little adjustment, set to 99 would be ideal but leaves no room for tweaking. Also, setting the raster size 1/4 inch from the phosphor edge maximizes phosphor usage, without risking cracking the tube due to electron beam off phosphor.

Now you can follow the barco guided adjustment mode which is quite good for a newbie. You should not have to adjust green much at all.
Once setup is complete you can tweak geometry/focus again and againh to get it perfect. This will become so easy once you have done it a few times.

Then do electronic beam focus, G2 adjust, and the pic will be amazing. Do not get rid of that pj. A digital for $2000 will not be a patch on that projector.
Look at performing greyscale adjustment at some point aswell. Trust me, as soon as you have done the intiial setup, you will be amazed at the picture. Then you will tweak a bit more as you understand more and the picture will be evcen better.
Then you will play with astig/g2/grayscale and be blown away by the improvements. Then gamma adjust, schiempflug ... etc etc etc

Thats the beauty of CRT. Even a poorly setup pj can look cool, but the more you tweak the better the results. And as you learn more, it will all become easier. Something you were afraid to attempt at the start will not be a problem to adjust later on. And it is so much fun to do a few tweaks and see the results. It really makes that big a difference.

Don't be put off by the large number of adjustments. Just do the initial setup, and when you have a decent picture you can tackle the other adjustments one by one.

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Barco Data 701s
iScan HD scaler with sdi mod
Oppo 981HD with sdi mod
Xbox 360
Playstation 2
Denon AVR 1507 7.1 AV receiver
Wharfedale Diamond 9.4 floorstanders (front)
Wharfedale EVO2 (center)
Pioneer 100W (sides)
Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 (rear)
Wharfedale SW150 active subwoofer

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject:

there was a recent thread on AVS that wound up being 7 or 8 pages long trying to coach a guy on how to simply make the raster square on a sony 1031. never mind the convergence. Clarence even posted multiple diagrams showing exactly which pots to turn etc. After all that the guy wound up hiring a pro which probly cost 10 times the value of the projector but he was determined to run that 1031.
So if some simple and honest advice to hire someone is going to be labeled as nagativity here then you guys have at it. Type away. Thumbs Up
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macgyver655



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508


Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject:

draganm wrote:
Zebu Fellenz wrote:
I would also like to add
yeah I would like to add something too. If you can't even get past the factory throw formula you should seriously consider hiring a pro to install it. Otherwise you will spend the next month here asking questions.


I dont think its the suggestion of seeking a pro that has negativity but the phrase that if you cant understand the math part (when there are other methods of throw distance) then you are probably not smart enough to learn how to set it up yourself. Plus you cant judge every other person that comes along asking questions by someone else that was unable to. Everyones learning ability is different. Look where athanosis is now from where he was a year or two ago.
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JustGreg



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject:

tommo2 wrote:

Thats the beauty of CRT. Even a poorly setup pj can look cool, but the more you tweak the better the results. And as you learn more, it will all become easier. Something you were afraid to attempt at the start will not be a problem to adjust later on. And it is so much fun to do a few tweaks and see the results. It really makes that big a difference.

HEY! I said that first!!!!

KIDDING!!!! Laughing Mr. Green

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Greg

"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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tommo2



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Ireland

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject:

JustGreg wrote:
tommo2 wrote:

Thats the beauty of CRT. Even a poorly setup pj can look cool, but the more you tweak the better the results. And as you learn more, it will all become easier. Something you were afraid to attempt at the start will not be a problem to adjust later on. And it is so much fun to do a few tweaks and see the results. It really makes that big a difference.

HEY! I said that first!!!!

KIDDING!!!! Laughing Mr. Green

Gotta check back, but it was definitely someone here who helped me setup my pj. Any any advice I give here is from my own experience, which was tutored by someone else here. So if it was you, thanks a million. Its nice to give something back Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

_________________
pull up the handbrake and walk away

Barco Data 701s
iScan HD scaler with sdi mod
Oppo 981HD with sdi mod
Xbox 360
Playstation 2
Denon AVR 1507 7.1 AV receiver
Wharfedale Diamond 9.4 floorstanders (front)
Wharfedale EVO2 (center)
Pioneer 100W (sides)
Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 (rear)
Wharfedale SW150 active subwoofer

Photos on the way!
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