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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: 801s Data/Graphics LC conversion using Retrographics tubes |
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Hello,
as you can guess from the headline I received an offer for the LC tubes from a Retrographics 801s. I can get a burned 801s Data set here quite chap. Is it possible to swap the tubes? For sure I would have to get HD 117-24 or HD 215 lenses for big pictures.
By the way: Can the 801s Data be converted to the 801s Graphics by swapping some parts from the Graphics to the Data . Would it make sense, because 75mhz bandwidh of the Data and Graphics should be sufficient for 64khz scan frequency of the Data, or not?
Best regards from Germany
noos
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Retros lc tube hardware are smaller sized, so you have to make chances to fp model frame to get tubes attached. 801s Retro tubes have no Sheimpflug adjustment and tubes are usually glued to 0 angle to hardware, that would cause uneven focus with FP Barcos 10.5 degree projection angle. This can be fixed by removing tubes from hardware and glueing tubes to angle...
So this can be done, but it's lot of work.
You can get data upgraded to graphics, but no difference in PQ. It scans higher, but BW and es-focus tubes limits sharpness after 64kHz anyway.
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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Ile wrote: | Retros lc tube hardware are smaller sized, so you have to make chances to fp model frame to get tubes attached. 801s Retro tubes have no Sheimpflug adjustment and tubes are usually glued to 0 angle to hardware, that would cause uneven focus with FP Barcos 10.5 degree projection angle. This can be fixed by removing tubes from hardware and glueing tubes to angle...
So this can be done, but it's lot of work.
You can get data upgraded to graphics, but no difference in PQ. It scans higher, but BW and es-focus tubes limits sharpness after 64kHz anyway. |
Thanks for the details!!!
I always have a place left for 0-axis projection. That should solve the scheimpfung problem (tilting fp so that lenssurface is 0 degrees)...? But I like your glue techniques as well. So you don´ see any electric problems - great! So I should look out for the lenses....
Yes it is work, but I just changed two sony rp to front - check rvp 4010 in the forum....it is worth the time for me!
Thanks a lot for the fast reply
noos
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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Vibe
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 164
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I did this conversion and it is really very easy (although mine is not the most "professional" looking, it works). I used the CRT mounting bracket from the Retro, it fits perfect in the Data 801s cage. You need to have the CRT mount holes machined for the B & R so you can adjust the CRT projection angle. I started it a while back (AKA "Son of Barkenstein) and just put it to actual use last month. It is hanging in a small 9x9 spare room so the short throw Retro lenses were perfect for getting a 90" image on the screen. The lenses are about 72" from the screen and can produce a 72x54 image from that distance. It can produces a nice sharp picture even at that size with those std Retro lenses. Read on for the problem I encountered after hanging it. When I set it up floor mounted and did all the tweaking it looked great, after I hung it (it's hung at a little more of an angle) I noticed a focusing problem. See below...
| Ile wrote: | | Retros lc tube hardware are smaller sized, so you have to make chances to fp model frame to get tubes attached. 801s Retro tubes have no Sheimpflug adjustment and tubes are usually glued to 0 angle to hardware, that would cause uneven focus with FP Barcos 10.5 degree projection angle. This can be fixed by removing tubes from hardware and glueing tubes to angle... |
... So that's why my Barco Data 801s LC focus is off!
The top is focused sharp to just past half way down, then it begins to get softer (mine is ceiling mounted). I thought it was a limitation of the Retro lenses so I was going to play with some washers on the lenses to see if I could correct the focus problem. Would adding some washers help correct, or at least make it a little better? I may still try it, but that does not sound like it will fix it now with the above info from Ile.
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Vibe wrote: | | I was going to play with some washers on the lenses to see if I could correct the focus problem. Would adding some washers help correct, or at least make it a little better? I may still try it, but that does not sound like it will fix it now with the above info from Ile. |
You can make Sheimpflug correction between c-element and lens using washers, I have tryed this in my 801s retro and it worked pretty well. In theory it's not as optimal place for correction that between tube and c-element, but haven't tested if there is real difference between these two methods.
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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Good morning,
and thanks for your thoughts!
.[/quote]
Both use same Sony 07MSP tubes just different hardware.
....interesting! The seller of the tubes told me that his rp 801s have 8" panasonic tubes build in. I could be wrong, so I will ask him for all the numbers on the tubes. But communication is very slow, because he is very busy.
...thanks for the link! I will check for a time my surroundings, because i fear the international shipping costs to munich Germany
...to be honest: For sure I also dream of such EM machines. Here is also one close to Germany. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140278613698&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004
I love the throw distance of the LC lenses, and then Lc itself. But money is limit. But I def. should consider the time.So I would be more effective to spend the time in EM machines like your great project or the very nice one in Ebay. .
| Quote: | | If your 801s suffer from streaking problem, I can trade set of modded rgb amps to non modded ones. |
....very nice offer. I will see the fp in the next weeks. If he is ok I can take him without the fear of streaking now! What is done to them to avoid streaking?
My best fp is a Sony 1272 in mint condition. I really like that one. What hardware and or LC housings would I need to convert it to LC?
| Quote: | I did this conversion and it is really very easy (although mine is not the most "professional" looking, it works). I used the CRT mounting bracket from the Retro, it fits perfect in the Data 801s cage. You need to have the CRT mount holes machined for the B & R so you can adjust the CRT projection angle. I started it a while back (AKA "Son of Barkenstein) and just put it to actual use last month. It is hanging in a small 9x9 spare room so the short throw Retro lenses were perfect for getting a 90" image on the screen. The lenses are about 72" from the screen and can produce a 72x54 image from that distance. It can produces a nice sharp picture even at that size with those std Retro lenses. Read on for the problem I encountered after hanging it. When I set it up floor mounted and did all the tweaking it looked great, after I hung it (it's hung at a little more of an angle) I noticed a focusing problem. See below...
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....thanks, If I get tubes I will ask for CRT mounting bracket from the Retro.
Best regards
noos
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| noos@xp37+ wrote: | | ....interesting! The seller of the tubes told me that his rp 801s have 8" panasonic tubes build in. I could be wrong, so I will ask him for all the numbers on the tubes. But communication is very slow, because he is very busy. |
All 800/801/801s are Sony tubed.
808 and Data 808s use Panasonic EM focus tubes. Maybe it's RD808s?
Be sure it's LC, because some 808 retros have ac-lenses.
| noos@xp37+ wrote: | | If he is ok I can take him without the fear of streaking now! What is done to them to avoid streaking? |
I remove ABL circuit. That should adjust more gain when tubes wear...
| noos@xp37+ wrote: | | My best fp is a Sony 1272 in mint condition. I really like that one. What hardware and or LC housings would I need to convert it to LC? |
You can use Retro Barco 800/801/801s LC housings for conversion, because those all use same Sony 07MSP/07MP tubes what your 1272.
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noos@xp37+
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 464
Location: Berlin/Munich
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ile,
I will check what tubes are offered - perhaps I am lucky and it´s a set of Panasonic 808 tubes....
and I will look for burned 07msa or 07mspa tubes for my 1272 conversion....
I will update the tread....
Thanks again
noos
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