CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Axatax]

[AnalogRocks]

See CRT's are still the best

[AnalogRocks]

See CRT's are still the best

[Curt Palme]

And not a single mention of this website in that article. Aholes!

[Curt Palme]

And not a single mention of this website in that article. Aholes!

[AnalogRocks]

Hey boss, you want we should....insert a mention on thier webiste?

[AnalogRocks]

Hey boss, you want we should....insert a mention on thier webiste?

[paw]

The article discussed CRT MONITORs but not projectors. Maybe that's why Curty-boy was not mentioned.

[WanMan]

[Person99]

[Curt Palme]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. To me it comes down to servicabilty. I personally do not have the best CRT setup, an unmoded 9500 driven by a Lumagen, component source switching through my Denon receiver. I know I can do better with the Fury, haven't bought a BR player yet... etc.

I could switch to a high end digital, sure I could. A JVC RS1 looked pretty good at Cliff's place when I saw it a year and a half ago, haven't spent any time with the RS2. Out of the box, the RS1 probably looks better than my own CRT, but I don't spend any time watching it anyways really.

What I can't stand is the potential failure of any digital along with bulb failures. My HT has been left on overnight 'by accident' by kids, I've fallen asleep under it, and it's been going strong for 3+ years (the 9500 replaced other various sets that have been in my HT). I need not worry about the set dying. Even if a tube imploded, I could have the set running again within 24 hours of the set going out with parts that I have here. I'd be paranoid about all of the above scenarios if I owed a digital, and kids would get their faces ripped off if they left it on overnight..

[Curt Palme]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. To me it comes down to servicabilty. I personally do not have the best CRT setup, an unmoded 9500 driven by a Lumagen, component source switching through my Denon receiver. I know I can do better with the Fury, haven't bought a BR player yet... etc.

I could switch to a high end digital, sure I could. A JVC RS1 looked pretty good at Cliff's place when I saw it a year and a half ago, haven't spent any time with the RS2. Out of the box, the RS1 probably looks better than my own CRT, but I don't spend any time watching it anyways really.

What I can't stand is the potential failure of any digital along with bulb failures. My HT has been left on overnight 'by accident' by kids, I've fallen asleep under it, and it's been going strong for 3+ years (the 9500 replaced other various sets that have been in my HT). I need not worry about the set dying. Even if a tube imploded, I could have the set running again within 24 hours of the set going out with parts that I have here. I'd be paranoid about all of the above scenarios if I owed a digital, and kids would get their faces ripped off if they left it on overnight..

[Person99]

[kal]

[kal]

[kal]

[kal]

[Curt Palme]

You won't have the satisfaction in drawing me into an argument Dave..

To each their own. You're right, a lot of people are thinking the way you do. I just know that my 9500 will be hanging from my ceiling in 10 years from now, with no tube changes based on wear due to my own use, and maybe 1 repair in that time.

You're illustrating the 'disposable' attitude towards electronics very well above, which is why you can buy your HT in a box at WalMart from a greeter that knows diddley about what they are selling. Good luck with that. Been there, done that with other purchases in my life. I no longer do that. I'll spend a bit more, I'll buy quality so that I don't need to go back and throw out my pressure washer/computer/juice jug/toilet brush because they break, either due to cheap construction or no parts availability.

You can laugh at the toilet brush example, but ever tried a $4.00 toilet brush from Wally world? I threw it out, and spent $12.00 on one from Linens and Things. It is still able to put up with my crap, no easy task here in the Great White North..

I'm no big environmentalist, but I'm guessing the amount of natural resources that are used to crank out disposable electronics is far more than making effing plastic bags. I'll continue to 'recycle' 'old' electronics, you keep buying digitals, Mmmkay?

[Curt Palme]

You won't have the satisfaction in drawing me into an argument Dave..

To each their own. You're right, a lot of people are thinking the way you do. I just know that my 9500 will be hanging from my ceiling in 10 years from now, with no tube changes based on wear due to my own use, and maybe 1 repair in that time.

You're illustrating the 'disposable' attitude towards electronics very well above, which is why you can buy your HT in a box at WalMart from a greeter that knows diddley about what they are selling. Good luck with that. Been there, done that with other purchases in my life. I no longer do that. I'll spend a bit more, I'll buy quality so that I don't need to go back and throw out my pressure washer/computer/juice jug/toilet brush because they break, either due to cheap construction or no parts availability.

You can laugh at the toilet brush example, but ever tried a $4.00 toilet brush from Wally world? I threw it out, and spent $12.00 on one from Linens and Things. It is still able to put up with my crap, no easy task here in the Great White North..

I'm no big environmentalist, but I'm guessing the amount of natural resources that are used to crank out disposable electronics is far more than making effing plastic bags. I'll continue to 'recycle' 'old' electronics, you keep buying digitals, Mmmkay?

[ecrabb]

There simply are valid and justifiable reasons for choosing either type of projector. No choice is wrong or right (or even more wrong or more right), as personal values, budgets, objectives and space and time constraints are all in play.

I would point out however from a solely "green" standpoint, I don't think you have a lot of leg to stand on there, Curt. Yes, CRT's are repairable, and yes they have a long lifespan. But, look at the sheer size and mass of a CRT projector and consider the massive amount of energy consumed to manufacture, ship, deliver and install them. Then, there's power consumption over the lifespan. Many digital projectors consume 250-350w, while most 8" and 9" CRT's are more like 750-1000w - most of that going to heat, which unless you're in a cool climate in the heating season, places additional load on the cooling system.

Yes, the digital projectors are "disposable" technology, and yes some of them die an early death. But, take a look at ebay and you'll find a LOT of used digital projectors. Clearly, most of them are not going into the landfill or to electronics recycling.

I'm not making a case one way or the other, as I really don't see a clearly superior choice in either technology. With each, you simply trade one thing for another. You trade on-off for contrast. You trade size/weight for repairability. You trade resolution for pixels and screen door. Unless you have a relatively unlimited budget, that is.

In that case of spending $6000+, I really do think digital has an edge at this point. The positives simply outweigh the negatives at the higher end. A good 1080p digital with a good anamorphic lens on a sled projecting on a scope screen is a sight to behold. ...And all from a projector that doesn't take two strong men to lift it and heavy steel framing bolted to the building to hold it up. Yeah, you can do it with a blend, but my God - even if I HAD the money, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go there. It's the opposite of elegant. It's a Rube Goldberg method to make CRT do something it was never intended to do. While it works wonderfully, it's not cheap, it's not elegant, and it's not practical for 95% of people who want a nice room in which to watch a movie.

It will probably be at least a couple of years (if not a little longer), but I have a digital. Something used in the RS2-class in 2-3 years should be a <$2500 proposition. Just as I've done with CRT, I'll probably find a projector and find a lens both used at a significantly reduced price and then make the jump. It's just a matter of time at this point. It'll have to be 1080p, though because I like to sit close (sorry, Dave!).

SC

[Curt Palme]

To clarify, what I meant is that CRTs are already made, we are all resurrecting them from certain death, so with the exception of the occasional soldering, we're not adding to the 'green' deficit. (my term). The disposable digitals that are being spit out at a furious rate are.

[Curt Palme]

To clarify, what I meant is that CRTs are already made, we are all resurrecting them from certain death, so with the exception of the occasional soldering, we're not adding to the 'green' deficit. (my term). The disposable digitals that are being spit out at a furious rate are.

[garyfritz]

Your "I can get it running in a few hours" claim is true for you, Curt, but you gotta admit you're not exactly, ummm, normal. For most people, keeping a CRT running is a lot more daunting proposition.

The bulb failure / implosion / etc risk is real, even if you don't worry about replacing bulbs. But I think we're getting close to the end of that -- the whole "bulb projector" idea was IMHO a very transitory phase. (Ignoring of course that film projectors have been using bulbs ever since they graduated from candles!!) Soon we'll have LED- or laser-based projectors, and bulb failures should then be a bad memory. And since the light sources on those technologies are extremely efficient, with much less energy wasted as heat, they're both more energy-efficient and they SHOULD last longer because they're not baking themselves from the inside out. And they should be very quiet since they won't need much cooling. Add that to the superior color gamut &etc and other benefits, and the LED/laser projectors sound mighty attractive. Once they get the kinks worked out of those new technologies, I think CRTs will well and truly be dead.

[Elaine Benes]

Funny how things always seem to degenerate into a discussion of the "merits" of crt projectors...

CRT projectors, for the masses, in the form of USED crt projectors ALWAYS were a stopgap measure, the fact that it was a VERY PROFITABLE stopgap measure for *some* is pretty much the ONLY reason its still going...

The "quality" of digital projectors is a simple reflection of their price. Remember, these vaunted crt projectors we so love to prop up were ridiculously expensive when new. $40,000. for some, at the pinnacle. When you can buy brand new, warrantied products for a tiny percentage of that, one would assume their life expectancy will be somewhat reduced.
Personally, I'll gladly trade off a huge, huge, huge discount in initial cost for a reduced life expectancy, that way I can indulge in NEW technologies instead of wallowing in technologies only so old as to be cost effective for me.

Personally, I simply can not wait for the lampless projectors to become common....When they do, you'll be able to buy superb, used projectors, with the potential for very long life(because of no moving parts and greatly reduced heat) for next to nothing after a few years...

[Person99]

[Person99]

[Curt Palme]

I can't argue the LED part. Take the heat our of the equation, and in theory you should have a digital chassis that lasts more or less a lifetime.

You have to wonder though, as Dave said above, in an industry that has been pushing new product/features on the consumer every year now, what will the industry do when they release a 1080p, 10-20,000 hour lifespan digital set that's within reach of the masses. Will manufacturers continue to undercut themselves to get market share which is what's happening now, or will prices stay high because the industry won't have a lot to offer for say 5-10 years that will be a dramatic improvement over long life, 1080p and a high contrast ratio?

[Curt Palme]

I can't argue the LED part. Take the heat our of the equation, and in theory you should have a digital chassis that lasts more or less a lifetime.

You have to wonder though, as Dave said above, in an industry that has been pushing new product/features on the consumer every year now, what will the industry do when they release a 1080p, 10-20,000 hour lifespan digital set that's within reach of the masses. Will manufacturers continue to undercut themselves to get market share which is what's happening now, or will prices stay high because the industry won't have a lot to offer for say 5-10 years that will be a dramatic improvement over long life, 1080p and a high contrast ratio?

[David_Web]

"Many digital projectors consume 250-350w, while most 8" and 9" CRT's are more like 750-1000w - most of that going to heat,"

I have measured my Marquee to 300W. It's far from 750-1000W. Also IIRC the LVPS it specd for 650W max input. I just don't see 'most' being over 750W at all.
And it's all going to heat in the end, not just most of it.