CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

If you guys think Vinyl is over the top imagine what it would cost to build a sizable tape collection at $200. a pop. Shocked

I am having trouble believing this has come back but it's supposed to be un-matched in sound repoduction.
http://www.tapeproject.com/
If this really takes off then curt's collection of tape machines will be gaining in value quickly. Surprised

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject:

Oh, come on Dave...

emdawgz1 · Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 7949

Youse guys love riding the vinyl folk. I'll tell you, a good vinyl recording sounds MUCH better than an average CD.

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject:

Yeah, and a reel-to-reel dub is just an analog imitation of the original recording.

I've never doubted that the best vinyl examples sounded better than their CD counterparts or stated otherwise... Especially under ideal circumstances, with an excellent turntable, excellent amplifiers and excellent loudspeakers. Unfortunately, very few of us can afford the room and the equipment with which to create those conditions.

Personally, I don't have the space, money or desire to spend another couple grand (at LEAST) on a stereo setup - to play a handful of vinyl which represents maybe 10 or 20% of what I'd actually want to listen to. Heck, I don't even just sit down to listen to music anymore! The rare occasion I have an hour or two to sit down, I'd rather watch a movie.

My point is, to most people on most systems, a CD that's done right sounds excellent. There are plenty of examples of that. Most of what people find objectionable about CD is either the mastering of the CD or the equipment it's played out. There are crap CD's and CD players just like there are crap vinyl and turntables. By the same token, there are excellent sounding CD's and CD players just like there are excellent sounding vinyl albums and turntables.

Can you get a different sound with vinyl? Yes. Is it always better? No. Is it worth the trouble for most people? No.

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

StylinLP · Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 41

ecrabb, you sure did write alot of excuses to not take music seriously. You talk about most people...what do most people think about crt projectors? lol. Every hobby has it's try fans that care about quality. You spelled it out quite completely why you don't care for music. Most people don't think about music other than it's good for back ground noise.

I, for one, do sit there and stare at the turntable spinning crosseyed for hours. Forgetting to eat and drool on myself :p

Reel to Reel is fricken cool. It's a bummer it can be so expensive. But as others on the AA forums pointed out you can pick up a nice machine for $25 on Craigslist but pay someone some good money to rebuild it. Sure the new Tapes cost $200 but there is many used on ebay for $10 and at local used record stores. I spoted alot of used on Craiglists too.

Just like a home theater, I dedicate a music listening room in my home. HIgh end turnable, Reel to Reel, $3k amps, $3k speakers. Heavan on earth!

ecrabb · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject:

Arrgghhhh.... I'm not saying anybody's crazy for going nuts with tubes and turntables, and I'm definitely not making excuses "to not take music seriously."

If you want to spend $10,000 on a stereo setup, that's totally cool with me - I don't care! Knock yourself out! What drives me ape are the zealots that are then happy to tell me that because I don't have a reel-to-reel or turntable, that I don't take music seriously. bull****. And then use terms like "nuance," "air" and "inner detail" to describe something that you can't even objectively measure or quantify, let alone compare!

If you want to use CRT for comparison, fine. CRT is great... for what it is. I didn't go CRT specifically and only because it offers the best quality. That would be naive, because CRT simply DOESN'T offer the best quality... Not in all areas of image quality, and certainly not across the spectrum of CRT brands and models. No, I went CRT because it offered the best value to me - the best bang for my buck - the best image qualty at a given price. To get the image quality in a digital that I want, I'd still have to spend many, many more times what I spent on my G70. So, it isn't simply about the best quality. It's about the best quality at a price I can justify and afford.

I also disagree with your implication that music is just "background noise" to me. I love music. I just don't have the time to enjoy it as I once did. I don't have the space to dedicate to a stereo setup, the money to dedicate to the equipment, nor the time to fart around with looking for, buying, caring for, and spinning vintage vinyl.

Finally, the idea that everybody who owns analog audiophile equipment (or CRT projectors for that matter) are doing it solely because of quality is laughable. Audiophile gear is often as much art as equipment. A lot of guys own it just to say they have it - that they can afford it. It's a status symbol. Still more own it just because it's a hobby - something to spend money on and something tweak, dink with, and fart around with. To find evidence of this effect in action, one only needs to look at the bumper crop of ridiculously priced snake oil components like power cables, interconnects, ceramic feet, cable elevators, wooden knobs (seriously!!?), green markers, cryogenically treated cables... NONE of which offer any REAL objectively measurable benefit.

Enjoy your vinyl or reel-to-reel or whatever blows up your dress. Just don't come telling me I listen to crap or don't care about music if I don't listen to the same setup you listen to.

SC

StylinLP · Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 41

The three greatest acheivements of mankind is the written word, religeon and music. Music is vital to our happiness. If you do not have time for music I do hope someday you will. I fight with Dragan all the time on how often he spins his Linn LP12.

You know, if you walk up to anyone on the street and ask them if they really like music. Not one of them will say no. Ask them if they like to listen to music and they will say yes without question. THe sad truth is most people do not. It is just background entertainment to them. 25 years ago it was the norm for people to sit around and listen to an album. Crazy to think about I know.
10 years ago if you told someone that Vinyl is superior to CD and tried to prove it with words. The general reaction you would get is that you just told them that the Bible is just a massive chain-letter. They would unreasonably stand by their years of propaganda and lies, their underlying beliefs that CD is perfect sound forever. Even the old crowd like my father signed up, bought, and sold on CD's when they took over. Lucky for us the battle lines were drawn 10 years ago and vinyl won. We no longer have to defend it. We are in the midst of a vinyl revival. If you go to an audio show you will find 90% of the rooms are auditioning their gear with a vinyl front end. All reviews by magazines and web use vinyl as the final albatritor of how good that componant sounds. Vinyl pressing plants around the world are opening regularly to support the demand. Every manufacturer and their mothers are offering new turntables. It is a simple fact that any serious audiophyle has a turntable for their front end. Anyone with a CD player just doesn't care enough about audio to switch over. That said. There is many guys exactly like you over the last ten years that converted with utter shock. Men broke down and cried when they commited their words to the forums on how vinyl found them again. It's a very common story now. But it stil moves me when I read it. Maybe someday vinyl will save you. Maybe not. But it would be fun to antaganize you if you did *grin*

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

I'm not dumping on anyone for not owning a vinyl rig, Crabman is right it takes a few grand to do it really well. I was just surprised people were so quick to disparage the Reel to reel decks. It seems to me if you take a master tape and do your best to transfer it to another 1/2" high qauality tape it "should" be the gold standard? No D/A/AD conversion of CD or RIAA equalization of vinyl.
AFA their descriptions of the sound, sure some of the things they talk about are not quantifiable, but I have definitely heard system that had a tremendous amount of air between and around the speakers. The efffect is one of where you know your in small room but if you close your eyes it seems like your in an outdoor venue or Jazz club. The music and voices just float in the air, and it can be very addicitive (not to mention expensive).

wallace123456 · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:56 am Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:10 am Post subject:

I love vinyl, love reel to reel, hate CD's, MP3's ( although I do have some ) and brussel sprouts suck too. Very Happy

I use to spend hours listening to vinyl. I literally wore out some needles and albums listening to them. When CD hit the scene here in 1986 I went out and bought a player. I bought 20 albums and I sat and listened with headphones like I do with vinyl. The sound sucked!

Then you heard the enginner's say wait,wait,wait....we master things MUCH better now. So I bought another 5 albums years later and had a listen on 4 different CD players. The sound still sucked. My total CD music collection in 22 years....about 30. Total vinyl? Sorry lost count. I have reel to reel tapes here too but I wasn't as serious about them as I was with vinyl.

Cassette tapes. Thousands! I love them....

CD's....don't sound right....Vinyl...yes some does sound bad, it's in the mastering.....especially if the "DIGITALY RUINED (remastered ) the Vinyl release.

However I own tonnes, of vinyl that sounds great, blows CD outta the water and there's just something about spinning the vinyl that apeals to me.

CD on the other hand...mehhh. Not interested. It's lilke my mp3 collection. I built it up in 1999-2001 when it was fun to do so. Since then I coulnd't care less. It sounds worse than CD.

I would love to audition a quality Reel to Reel again. Hmmmm.............

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:49 am Post subject:

Broccoli with cheese sauce... Mmmmm!

RTR or cassettes with cheese sauce- not so much.

It's sad, I don't have a 'decent' 2 channel setup anymore, and it's been years since I have, pretty much since high school. I have the gear here to do it, just no time to listen. I'm in the process of taking my 400+ reel to reels and dumping them onto CD, go figure.

I still have a bunch of RTRs, but sold a bunch of them off in the last year. Getting top $$ for them on eBay. Sold a REvox B77 in great electronic, OK physical shape in April for $890.00. NOt bad for a deck I spent $200 and 2 hours on .. Smile

wallace123456 · Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 2236 Location: Northwest VA area

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

Holy fricking cow, I just checkjed e-prey and the average price on the STR-1500 is $3000. Shocked

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=Technics+RS-1500&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=&_osacat=32862

ecrabb · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:25 am Post subject:

Not really... That's one seller that bought and is trying to sell six of the colored model (which must be more rare). They do look like they're in mint condition. Looking at closed auctions, it looks like there were a couple that sold (or would have sold) for $500-750.

SC

StylinLP · Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 41

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: