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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jarseneau wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | I can't redo the magnetic astig just now, and I don't want to reset all my focus and astig because right now during actual movie content it looks quite good. But I did try the focus pot and the areas of problem will not come into focus no matter what the pot is set to. |
What I see in the picture is some haziness on the left side and upper corner that could be optical edge focus (the forward wingnut on the lens) or it could be weak electronic focus. If I were there, I would prove which it is by doing the Guy Kuo focus method which looks for the grain in the CRT phosphor to establish mechanical focus. To try this, defocus the green tube entirely using the focus pot to eliminate any possibility of scan lines. Then project an all white screen with the green CRT only. Look for a grainy pattern on the screen. This is the phosphor surface showing on the screen. You will only see this grain with near perfect focus. If you don't see it, don't blame the electronics and work on your edge focus |
I did what you said and was able to get it a bit better, but looking at the screen and into the tube face it seems as though there is still an electronic issue as well.
There is also one other problem with the projector that has been worrying me. Every now and then the menus///image will wiggle for a second. And when watching movies, sometimes I will hear a little click sound and the image will go totally unaligned for a split second then right back to normal. Is something getting ready to fail? This happens once every two hours or so, for less than a second.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Satanier wrote: | | There is also one other problem with the projector that has been worrying me. Every now and then the menus///image will wiggle for a second. And when watching movies, sometimes I will hear a little click sound and the image will go totally unaligned for a split second then right back to normal. Is something getting ready to fail? This happens once every two hours or so, for less than a second. |
I hate to make assumptions because it could be variety of things but what you describe is the projector momentarily loosing recognition of the incoming signal. In my case it has often been on the VGA end (the plug that goes into the PC) Make sure the plug is firmly secured to the PC connector. Next try flexing the cable at that end and if it drops out then, you have a semi broken wire inside the cable. On the projector end, check that each BNC connector is pushed in and twisted to lock, try flexing the wire to check for intermittent connection. The symptom you describe is a sign that you are loosing the H or V signal. If it was R G or B, you would just drop the one color.
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Jerry
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jarseneau wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | There is also one other problem with the projector that has been worrying me. Every now and then the menus///image will wiggle for a second. And when watching movies, sometimes I will hear a little click sound and the image will go totally unaligned for a split second then right back to normal. Is something getting ready to fail? This happens once every two hours or so, for less than a second. |
I hate to make assumptions because it could be variety of things but what you describe is the projector momentarily loosing recognition of the incoming signal. In my case it has often been on the VGA end (the plug that goes into the PC) Make sure the plug is firmly secured to the PC connector. Next try flexing the cable at that end and if it drops out then, you have a semi broken wire inside the cable. On the projector end, check that each BNC connector is pushed in and twisted to lock, try flexing the wire to check for intermittent connection. The symptom you describe is a sign that you are loosing the H or V signal. If it was R G or B, you would just drop the one color. |
I've seen the problem pretty much since I got the PJ, and I have reseated all cables several times. It seems to happen at random just as I'm sitting there.
As for the focus issue I'm still trying to figure out what could be wrong...
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Reseat the connections to the deflection board, and C and V drives.
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | An EM looking like a high hour ES  |
I'm pretty sure the last pic is just overexposed quite a bit, causing green to bloom. |
Are you referring to the left and right sides? That's almost exactly what it looks like in real life. |
No, I was refering to the Hs in the center (or actually anywhere on the screen) 
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| kschmit2 wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | An EM looking like a high hour ES |
I'm pretty sure the last pic is just overexposed quite a bit, causing green to bloom. |
Are you referring to the left and right sides? That's almost exactly what it looks like in real life. |
No, I was refering to the Hs in the center (or actually anywhere on the screen) |
Yeah it's pretty bad. The red is flawless all around, the blue is mediocre but I guess blue doesnt need to be that sharp? But the green is just godawful... part of the prob was mechanical but now I can see the grain while defocused and it's still blurry, I can see the problem on tube face.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | Reseat the connections to the deflection board, and C and V drives. |
That was going to be my next suggestion as well, especially based on the 'squigldys' (copyright pending for this invented word). However, the click and sudden loss of convergence is very consistent with the projector seeking signal recognition which for me has always been externally caused. You could have a flakey BNC connector in the projector at H or V. If you are using an input card in the B or C slot, be sure to seat the one in use as well.
Beyond reseating the connectors, I've found cleaning to really stabilize this situation as well. I've had good results applying DE-OXIT cleaner and then scrubbing the residue after it has a chance to DeOx (ANOTHER new word invented!)
Satanier, I wouldn't eliminate the cables as the cause solely because it's always done this. Troubleshooting is rarely such a straightforward process that allows elimination of things checked initially. The cables may have also been the same, the PC video card may have been the same. It sounds like you've also always had this problem on a intermittent basis.
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Jerry
Last edited by jarseneau on Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | An EM looking like a high hour ES |
I'm pretty sure the last pic is just overexposed quite a bit, causing green to bloom. |
Are you referring to the left and right sides? That's almost exactly what it looks like in real life. |
No, I was refering to the Hs in the center (or actually anywhere on the screen) |
Yeah it's pretty bad. The red is flawless all around, the blue is mediocre but I guess blue doesnt need to be that sharp? But the green is just godawful... part of the prob was mechanical but now I can see the grain while defocused and it's still blurry, I can see the problem on tube face. |
You could nail the cause to the tube by taking the red tube, lens and all, and moving it to the Green position in the chassis with the green magnets installed on the red tube.
To ensure you can put the RED magnetics back in their original placement when you are done with the test, just be sure to mark the location on the neck's tape material using a pen or thin magic marker. It would be hard to mark the forwardmost coil but most of the time it is simply as far forward against the CRT bell as it can go and the Fg set slides right up against this. It's the CPC magnets that are spaced out on their own and which can be marked. Also be sure to pay attention to the bevelled ring that goes on the neck between the Mg and the Fg coils. The Fg coil has a matching bevelled surface on it's front side.
If you swap the tubes and the RED still looks great with the GREEN magnetics, then you likely have a GREEN tube that has poor corner focus, etc. The other possibility is that you will find something as you unmount/remount magnetics. Alternatively, if the RED looks bad with the GREEN magnetics, then you have something wrong in the GREEN coils or F/A drives to fix.
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Jerry
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| jarseneau wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | Satanier wrote: | | kschmit2 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | An EM looking like a high hour ES |
I'm pretty sure the last pic is just overexposed quite a bit, causing green to bloom. |
Are you referring to the left and right sides? That's almost exactly what it looks like in real life. |
No, I was refering to the Hs in the center (or actually anywhere on the screen) |
Yeah it's pretty bad. The red is flawless all around, the blue is mediocre but I guess blue doesnt need to be that sharp? But the green is just godawful... part of the prob was mechanical but now I can see the grain while defocused and it's still blurry, I can see the problem on tube face. |
You could nail the cause to the tube by taking the red tube, lens and all, and moving it to the Green position in the chassis with the green magnets installed on the red tube.
To ensure you can put the RED magnetics back in their original placement when you are done with the test, just be sure to mark the location on the neck's tape material using a pen or thin magic marker. It would be hard to mark the forwardmost coil but most of the time it is simply as far forward against the CRT bell as it can go and the Fg set slides right up against this. It's the CPC magnets that are spaced out on their own and which can be marked. Also be sure to pay attention to the bevelled ring that goes on the neck between the Mg and the Fg coils. The Fg coil has a matching bevelled surface on it's front side.
If you swap the tubes and the RED still looks great with the GREEN magnetics, then you likely have a GREEN tube that has poor corner focus, etc. The other possibility is that you will find something as you unmount/remount magnetics. Alternatively, if the RED looks bad with the GREEN magnetics, then you have something wrong in the GREEN coils or F/A drives to fix. |
I'm hoping there might be an easier way to find out what the problem could be =\
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Have you swapped tube locations? That's the next step.
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Believe it or not this is actually still a problem. I just moved and set it up again so it really got me thinking.
I want to set up again this time for 1080p, (ive been using 720), but I feel I wont see much benefit without setting it up better than I have in the past. The first step to that is solving this issue, is there anything more I can try without swapping tube positions? That sounds very daunting.
(A few posts up is a picture of my problem)
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tried the tube swap suggested in the January 15th post? It really wouldn't be that hard to do. Just use Curt's NEC CRT replacement guide to show you how. Or check out the XG specific tube replacement guide. Come on now 
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Jerry
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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What would the result of that advanced procedure be? To find out my tube needs replacing? I dont have the funds for that so I'm trying to figure out if this is worth doing.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Replacing the tube isn't the most likely outcome but even if it is, the procedure would lead you to the correct solution and avoid wasting time and money by going down the wrong path. Basically, if you put the RED CRT in the GREEN CRT's place (plugging it into the GREEN CRT neck board, connecting ASTIG cable AG, and FOCUS cable FG into the FOCUS coil on the RED CRT, and moving the deflection cable connector on the hinged HD board from location ER to EG), that result will correctly lead you to the next step. The 2 possible results:- The RED CRT displays an out of focus image on its face, which eliminates the GREEN CRT as the cause and leads you to seek repair of the F-DRIVE board
- The RED CRT displays a focused image on its face, the problem lies with the GREEN CRT or focus coil
You could probably get away with leaving the tubes where they are and just swap the ASTIG and FOCUS cables; connecting ASTIG cable AG, and FOCUS cable FG into the RED CRT FOCUS coil and plug the AR and FR into the GREEN CRT's FOCUS coil. If the GREEN then focuses and the RED goes out of focus, that proves the GREEN CRT does work and the problem is in the F-DRIVE. To find the ASTIG and FOCUS cables, look for the AR,FR and AG,FG tags on wire bundles plugging into the FOCUS coils (the one mounted on the middle of the CRT neck. If you do this swap and the RED goes out of focus and the GREEN becomes good, that means the GREEN CRT is good and points to an F-DRIVE problem.
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Jerry
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| Satanier wrote: |
What would the result of that advanced procedure be? To find out my tube needs replacing? I dont have the funds for that so I'm trying to figure out if this is worth doing. |
Advanced procedure? It's changing a tube. Not much harder than changing a light bulb.
If you can't change a tube, you should buy a digital.
And if you can't systematically troubleshoot (didn't we do the coil lead swap before?), you should buy a digital.....and a mac.
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | Satanier wrote: |
What would the result of that advanced procedure be? To find out my tube needs replacing? I dont have the funds for that so I'm trying to figure out if this is worth doing. |
Advanced procedure? It's changing a tube. Not much harder than changing a light bulb.
If you can't change a tube, you should buy a digital.
And if you can't systematically troubleshoot (didn't we do the coil lead swap before?), you should buy a digital.....and a mac. |
Last I checked changing a light bulb didnt have 70 steps.
And I wont be buying a digital, since I'm broke, and I like the advantages of CRT.
As for the mac comment, not sure how to even respond to that. Would never buy one. Have had no problems troubleshooting and using my PCs over the years.
Last edited by Satanier on Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jarseneau wrote: | Replacing the tube isn't the most likely outcome but even if it is, the procedure would lead you to the correct solution and avoid wasting time and money by going down the wrong path. Basically, if you put the RED CRT in the GREEN CRT's place (plugging it into the GREEN CRT neck board, connecting ASTIG cable AG, and FOCUS cable FG into the FOCUS coil on the RED CRT, and moving the deflection cable connector on the hinged HD board from location ER to EG), that result will correctly lead you to the next step. The 2 possible results:- The RED CRT displays an out of focus image on its face, which eliminates the GREEN CRT as the cause and leads you to seek repair of the F-DRIVE board
- The RED CRT displays a focused image on its face, the problem lies with the GREEN CRT or focus coil
You could probably get away with leaving the tubes where they are and just swap the ASTIG and FOCUS cables; connecting ASTIG cable AG, and FOCUS cable FG into the RED CRT FOCUS coil and plug the AR and FR into the GREEN CRT's FOCUS coil. If the GREEN then focuses and the RED goes out of focus, that proves the GREEN CRT does work and the problem is in the F-DRIVE. To find the ASTIG and FOCUS cables, look for the AR,FR and AG,FG tags on wire bundles plugging into the FOCUS coils (the one mounted on the middle of the CRT neck. If you do this swap and the RED goes out of focus and the GREEN becomes good, that means the GREEN CRT is good and points to an F-DRIVE problem. |
Thank you so much for this very helpful post, I will try swapping both the F and A drive cables between green and red tubes. I had tried swapping the focus board cables but I cant recall if I swapped the Astig.
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Satanier
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 185
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I swapped the red and green focus and astig cables and the green tube remains mildly blurry throughout and severely blurry in the right side/s.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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This result would steer me away from suspecting the A-Drive or F-Drive as the problem. Can you make GREEN focus menu changes and see a range of adjustment affect the RED tube while swapped. If you can get RED focused center and sides with the GREEN cables connected to RED then the A and F-Drive boards must be ok and I would move on to the next step of checking physical differences of the tube magnetics.
The CRT neck has 3 items clamped along its length that need to be properly positioned front-to-back; the deflection coil should be pushed forward toward the CRT bell as much as possible, the ASTIG/FOCUS coil should nest against the deflection coil and you should find a white nylon collar on the neck at the front end of the A/F coil which provides spacing/support for the A/F coil. The A/F coil should be slid up against the deflection coil. The third neck item is the 6-pole magnet ring assy. Basically, I would see if it is placed similar to the RED tube's.
The other possibility is that the tube has fungus in the coolant with more concentrated on the sides making it cloudy/hazy.
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Jerry
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Well I was a little bored tonight so I was reading this thread, mostly for the first time other then an earlier post. So I figured I'd give this dead horse a whack.
I laughed at your one post when you said that your tube didn't have glycol...... then I thought maybe it doesn't??????
Did it all leak out and there is none in there? Better check.....
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