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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| snkby wrote: | well...........i sit down to watch and take it off pause and there is the banding again.
i did notice that when the scene was bright and evenly lit there was no banding.
i have an 8110 in the garage but i dont know if it has good boards for swapping.
any ideas ?
thanks. |
OK, so it is definitely video related and likely the Video Input module. The VIM on the old 8000's was not a very reliable piece whih is why the entire electronics package was re-designed in 95. If you have an 8110 in the garage why are you even running the 8000? the 8110 is a very much superior machine with higher reliability and improved video performance, blue gamma tracking being one of the bigger upgrades.
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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the 8110 is sitting in the garage because i bought it believing the guy that it worked but after getting it home it would power-up but not light any tubes so i figured it was just -another- project.
and the green tube needs to be swapped-out.
i did take the hvps out of it and put it into the 8000 but didnt see any difference.
i didnt realize it was -that- much better a machine.
so can i take the vim out of the 8110 and put it into the 8000?
trouble is that i dont know if the vim on the 8110 is any good.
i guess putting it in would tell me if its good or not though seeing as how i do get a picture right now.
so whats the fix for the 8000 vim ?
thanks.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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I would try and get the 8110 to power up. put the HVPS back into the 8110 along with the HDM from the 8000, see if the 8110 powers up. if it does, then simply swap over the green tube.
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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but if its the hdm of the 8000 that is the problem why would i put it into the 8110 ?
seems like i would then have an 8110 that cant show hd either right ?
swapping tubes would give me the excuse to do the colored glycol for the r/g tubes then.
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: |
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ok....seems its going to be a little more involved than just swapping the hdm from the 8110 to the 8000.
the 8000 has the acon module in it and i remember when i first got it that when i disconnected it the pj wouldnt light-up.
curt said it was kind of involved to -really- disconnect it and to just leave it connected which i did.
so.....i pull the hdm from the 8110 and then started to pull the hdm from the 800 but there is a red lead soldered to r154 and it goes to the acon module.
then i noticed a black lead with solder on the end of it from the acon module just floating loose.
i started to wonder if that loose black lead might be the cause of the banding ?
and how do i put the hdm from the 8110 into the 8000 if the hdm has that red lead soldered to it ?
i have no problem just disconnecting the acon module for good so that it would facilitate future board swaps.
can i just unscrew the acon connector that has the leads coming from it to remove the 8000 hdm and install the 8110 hdm ?
thanks.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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here are the pix.
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
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im thinking the black lead that is disconnected might also go somewhere on the backplane as i cant see anywhwere it might have been attached on the hdm.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I would desolder the red wire and take out the acon since you don't use it and it probably isn't working with the black not connected. Also if you want so those wires are not hanging around shorting something remove the acon board above the CLM on the left bay and pull those wires out with it if they are indeed connected to it.
I bet that was causing the issues you were having.
Athanasios
_________________
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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when i first got the pj i remember disconnecting the connector at the acon module and the pj wouldnt work with the acon disconnected.
curt told me to leave it connected as removing the acon was more complicated than just physically disconnecting it and taking it out.
so isnt desoldering the red and blue just liking unplugging the connector from the acon ?
im thinking the black lead is ground as red is labeled +24.
does anyone know for certain where the black lead goes ?
the back of the pj is close to the wall and i cant open the backplane without moving the pj so i was just going to cut the blue lead instead of desoldering it from the backplane.
thanks.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| snkby wrote: | but if its the hdm of the 8000 that is the problem why would i put it into the 8110 ?
seems like i would then have an 8110 that cant show hd either right ? |
Whoa! we seem to be ageeting a lot of important information pretty late in the game. I suggested putting a known working HDM into the 8110 to see if would bring that machine up. I did not know that the 8000 HDM was a mess with soldered on jumpers and crap like that. I have had plenty of ACON machines here and none of them had any soldered on wires, it''s stricty a plug in device. The only possibility I can think of is it's a very old 8000 with early ACON which might mean the jumpers are a factory band-aid fix, the 8000's are really full of these and they're on every board.
I say it's all the more reason to concentrate on the 8110, it's a MUCH better machine and worth working on. You said it powers up but doesn't bring up the tubes. Does it show a Red H light on the control module in back? Sometimes just cleaing the HDM contacts and daughter board will solve this and it's a common error. Don't scrape connectors with an exacto blade, simply wipe and re-install.
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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i cleaned the daughter board and the tubes lit up. 
but........they are kinda dim and i cannot see any menu when i use the remote for conv/help/etc.
ramping up briteness gets the blue bright but not nearly as bright........hmmm..............i was just thinking.....could this be because i have the 8110 hvps in the 8000 and the 8000 hvps in the 8110 ?
there are some diagonal lines scrolling and a lot of noise on the tube faces.
going to swap the hvps and see what happens.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| snkby wrote: | i cleaned the daughter board and the tubes lit up.
but........they are kinda dim and i cannot see any menu when i use the remote for conv/help/etc.
ramping up briteness gets the blue bright but not nearly as bright........hmmm..............i was just thinking.....could this be because i have the 8110 hvps in the 8000 and the 8000 hvps in the 8110 ?
there are some diagonal lines scrolling and a lot of noise on the tube faces.
going to swap the hvps and see what happens. |
I dont think the HVPS swap is whats wrong, the remedy is most likley the same as what you did to the HDM daughter board, do this for every board in the set. Clean all contacts , especially the CLM. There you need to remove and clean the contacts for the DPB and all removeable chips on the CLM and the DPB(especially U7 here) Get a IC chip puller form radio shack and also soem Caig cleaner and use a tooth brush to clean all the contacts with that stuff, also while your out buying this stuff get some denatured alcohol and clean all the boards, pour some in a cup , dip the tooth brush and brush both sides of each board, flush with more Denatured alcohol and let dry. then put all boards back in and test the set. it sat for a long time , everything needs a good cleaning.
here is the advice i gave a memebr over on AVS i'll repost it here:
here is a link to parts and boards of the Marquee. Reseating of the Focus board and HDM is just pulling it out and putting in in a few times to clean the contacts, you dont have to remove any connections to do this. Just pull up and put back in a few times. http://www.curtpalme.com/ElectrohomeMarquee_Layout1.shtm
Location of FCM and HDM.
on the hdm their is a daughter board that also need to be removed and reconected.
HDM Pic
Next on the CLM there are some chips that can be taken out from their
sockets, do one at a time. you will need a IC puller from radio shack to do this.
Location of CLM:
CLM out of Set showing chips.
chip puller pic:
Clean all chips with some contact cleaner or Denatured Alcohol.
I use DeOxit:
http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=1491&c=ACCT113328&h=e3c3a4a7806d4b7935fd
Do one chip at a time and remember how it came out so you put it back in the same way.
If this doesnt work then it could be the LVPS as Tim has said. I have had the same problem and cleaned every contact in the PJ and after it worked. so it could be this or a bad LVPS.
Athanasios
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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| snkby wrote: | | i cleaned the daughter board and the tubes lit up. . |
Woo-hoo, now we're getting somewhere 
| snkby wrote: | but........they are kinda dim and i cannot see any menu when i use the remote for conv/help/etc.
.....ramping up briteness gets the blue bright but not nearly as bright........hmmm.........i was just thinking.....could this be because i have the 8110 hvps in the 8000 and the 8000 hvps in the 8110 ?
there are some diagonal lines scrolling and a lot of noise on the tube faces.
going to swap the hvps and see what happens. |
no it's not the HVPS, I will bet 20 dollars that LVPS in that machine has the P14 overvoltage and it fried all 3 tubes. Bascially, your next step is replace the correct 34.9 HVPS back in that machine, put the 8000 LVPS in their as well, then swap over all 3 tubes but NOT the 8000 neck-boards. Pay close attention to all wire connections expecially the White G2 wire which goes to pin 2 in clocking window.
I would send out the 8110 LVPS to someone to modify that circuit and get the P14 dialed in exaclty. Cleaning all contacts like Athansios suggested is always a good idea as well.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | snkby wrote: | | i cleaned the daughter board and the tubes lit up. . |
Woo-hoo, now we're getting somewhere
| snkby wrote: | but........they are kinda dim and i cannot see any menu when i use the remote for conv/help/etc.
.....ramping up briteness gets the blue bright but not nearly as bright........hmmm.........i was just thinking.....could this be because i have the 8110 hvps in the 8000 and the 8000 hvps in the 8110 ?
there are some diagonal lines scrolling and a lot of noise on the tube faces.
going to swap the hvps and see what happens. |
no it's not the HVPS, I will bet 20 dollars that LVPS in that machine has the P14 overvoltage and it fried all 3 tubes. Bascially, your next step is replace the correct 34.9 HVPS back in that machine, put the 8000 LVPS in their as well, then swap over all 3 tubes but NOT the 8000 neck-boards. Pay close attention to all wire connections expecially the White G2 wire which goes to pin 2 in clocking window.
I would send out the 8110 LVPS to someone to modify that circuit and get the P14 dialed in exaclty. Cleaning all contacts like Athansios suggested is always a good idea as well. |
It might not be the overvoltage yet, he only ramped up brightness, not Contrast. Brightness wont light up a tube like Contrast, remember contrast is the whit level and brightness is the level of black. ramp up contrast too and see what you get.
And after still do the board cleaning on both sets.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | It might not be the overvoltage yet, he only ramped up brightness, not Contrast. Brightness wont light up a tube like Contrast, remember contrast is the whit level and brightness is the level of black. ramp up contrast too and see what you get.And after still do the board cleaning on both sets.
Athanasios |
if he can't see the menu's the tubes are toast. This is very common with machines built from late 95 to early 97. i've had a dozen machines like it here with no light output and some with perfect Phosphors.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | It might not be the overvoltage yet, he only ramped up brightness, not Contrast. Brightness wont light up a tube like Contrast, remember contrast is the whit level and brightness is the level of black. ramp up contrast too and see what you get.And after still do the board cleaning on both sets.
Athanasios |
if he can't see the menu's the tubes are toast. This is very common with machines built from late 95 to early 97. i've had a dozen machines like it here with no light output and some with perfect Phosphors. |
Ahhhh Good thing to know no menu toasted tubes !!!
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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snkby
Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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well...........the project is on hold until friday when i can pickup an ic puller.
went to radioshack tonight and they stopped selling them!!!
is it really -no menu = toasted tubes- ?
i remember turning on a marquee pj -dont rememebr whos- and also not seeing a menu until doing something -dont remember what- that brought it up on the green tube.
i did ramp-up the contrast too and didnt see it make any difference.
when i powered it down and then back up after getting the tubes lit they were dark until i ramped-up the briteness then they came on as before being only a medium intensity.
and i will get the resistor and pot for doing the p14 mod to the hvps.
i may as well get 3 sets and do my 8000 and a customers 8000 too.
anybody know where that black acon lead goes ?
id love to at least get my 8000 running again before i start to disassemble the 8110 and do all the mods.
thanks.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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