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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I think your platform is for training, not for killing, otherwise no one would buy it. 
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Why is it when one person likes something and thinks its cool, others have to tear it down just because they have a different view on it? Why can't they just not reply at all be nice let others like the things they like and keep their "you should see things my way" attitude to themselves! I understand we all have a different way of viewing things. I like guns and blowing shi*t up! It bothers me however when someone tells me that I'm a bad person for liking those things, and I should "change my evil ways"
"end rant"
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Adam
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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XANATOS
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
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yes you should mend your ways,blowing $hit up may lead to your name being changed to stumpe 
XANATOS
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Some of these arguments are so full of holes.
draganm
The founding fathers wanted us to have guns to keep the government in check. All they were was a bunch of farmers and they were able to defeat the British army.
Also who would not want to be on the side of the 250 million pissed off citizens with pitchforks against the marines anyday, let alone the hundreds of millions of guns that the citizens would have access to. When Governments want to put down the citizens, the first thing they go for is their guns, once they have them they can just slaughter them wholesale. You will notice at that church, it only took a handful of citizens with guns to hold off the government for quite a while before they brought the tanks in. The cowards would not even fight fair. And most people know how two guys were able perform their version of justice on the government.
Guns more often then not save lives. 2.5 million times a year. You will not hear about it in the news, because peoples minds are so easily twisted and they want you to believe guns are a bad thing. I can guaranty you no one here can point out a story in the news about using a gun for self defense, but you will constantly hear about the murders. And you will never hear that a gun can do it's job while never pulling the trigger. In fact guns protect people that do not even own one. Criminals prey on defenseless people or people they believe are defenseless. If the criminal thinks there is a chance that the person has a gun to defend themselves when they break into their house or try to mug them, they will go elsewhere to someone that they believe does not have a gun.
It's the same idea with the Federal Marshals on airlines. Terrorist now know that there are now people that can defend that airplane, or is it that airplane? You do not have to put a gun equipped Marshal on every airplane, just the fact that they are now unsure is a deterrence. Also the pilots may be carrying weapons, who knows. In fact if this policy had been in place before 9/11 would the terrorist have been able to do what they did?
The argument that a gun is designed to kill people is short sighted. Guns are designed to defend people, shoot at targets, kill game, be collected, keep countries free... All most all police have never killed anyone, yet the guns they carry still do the job they were designed to do. Defend them and the public.
GUNS SAVE LIVES!!!
http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm
Deron.
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antorsae
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 297
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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I have my own opinion about this, but in any case this is not the right forum, right?
Please admin move this to the OT forum... or wherever this belongs...
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XANATOS
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Just delete this thread please
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Z-Photo
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 2749
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Liberal with an assault rifle |
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| PJMoore wrote: | | The only thing I murder is a piece of target paper and a lot of people's comfort zone. |
That explains the crime rate in NOOGA -
quit using paper - recylcle useless humans 
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Ridebreck
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | That shotgun is designed to kill people. (Oh sure, I know you could use it to hunt quail, but that's NOT what it's designed for.)
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Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that. Your typical modern day dove load is not going to kill anyone unless you shoot them at point blank range. Older style shotguns were a lot less accurate. Not all guns are designed to kill people. The vast majority of rifles and shotguns today are specifically designed for game animals.
That said, people that are intent on killing can be very resourceful. Sure, guns are a very efficient tool to use for this purpose, but look at the last few terrorist attacks - not a single gun was employed and hundreds were killed.
As for the helicopter, I think it's fairly safe to say that while something like this *could* be used to murder innocents, the liklihood is slim to none.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I was being facetious. If you try to hunt quail with that gun, you'll end up with a greasy smear and a few mangled feathers. Take a look at that video and see if you think you'd have to shoot somebody point-blank to kill them. I don't think they're using "dove loads."
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | you guys are confusing a normal firearm that can be used to defend yourself or your home with a fully automatic slaughter gun. Like I said earlier, I am not in favor of banning guns and I even like the conclealed carry laws. however, anything that is semi-auto and can kill a dozen people without re-loading should be outlawed. |
I guess people missed this so i'll quote myself. I'm not in favor of banning guns. However it seems Perisoft is determined to go quail hunting with a fully auot shotgun. I bet you could mow down a whole flock in 2 seconds and might even find a beak or claw afterwards.
| XANATOS wrote: | DRAQANM
i am not going to give you any $hit,for your point of view,i understand it.
and i am not to give you any bull $hit about guns dont kill people kill people,well people kill
but we use guns to do it,not cars not knives are hammers
but no free man should be willing to give up any of his rights because of street criminals
XANATOS |
It's not even about street criminals. We have seen hundreds of kids murdered in their own schools last few years by deranged classmates and insane people with semi-auto handguns they purchased from a store. I would like to see anything semi-auto, rapdi fire, with large magazines outlawed. Why is it illegal to go hunting with more than seven bullets but it's ok to buy a semi-auto gun with 20 rounds that you can hunt people with?
| deronmoped wrote: | Some of these arguments are so full of holes.
draganm
The founding fathers wanted us to have guns to keep the government in check. All they were was a bunch of farmers and they were able to defeat the British army.. |
I wonder wha tthe founding fathers would have to say about virginia Tech where a single lunatic wit ha 9mm pistol murdered 36 people?
| deronmoped wrote: | | Also who would not want to be on the side of the 250 million pissed off citizens with pitchforks against the marines anyday, let alone the hundreds of millions of guns that the citizens would have access to. When Governments want to put down the citizens, the first thing they go for is their guns, once they have them they can just slaughter them wholesale. You will notice at that church, it only took a handful of citizens with guns to hold off the government for quite a while before they brought the tanks in. The cowards would not even fight fair. And most people know how two guys were able perform their version of justice on the government.. |
governments don't fight fair, they have tanks, jets, artillery, smart bombs, and no hesitation to target civilians whether they are US citizens or not. yuor guns will not save you from an army.
| deronmoped wrote: | | Guns more often then not save lives. 2.5 million times a year. You will not hear about it in the news, because peoples minds are so easily twisted and they want you to believe guns are a bad thing. I can guaranty you no one here can point out a story in the news about using a gun for self defense, Deron. |
Actually I can. There was a chruch here in CO where a nut went on a shooting spree. He had a gun capable of mowing down 6 people but it took only took 2 bullets fro ma security guard to stop him. Which brings me back to my origianl point. You don't need a F-IN machine gun to defend yourself. Those guns are designed for wholesale slaughter and nothing else.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | However it seems Perisoft is determined to go quail hunting with a fully auot shotgun. |
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | I wonder wha tthe founding fathers would have to say about virginia Tech where a single lunatic wit ha 9mm pistol murdered 36 people?. |
Hey, why a 9mm killed 36 people! Lets put the gun in jail, forget about the guy holding onto the gun. Its the guns fault. Had some sub-human not designed and built that gun he would have never killed someone. So lets take this a bit further lets put the manufacturer in jail, or sue them for making this gun and selling it. Had a semi-automatic never been made there would never be any senseless killing.
Is it not better to hold the people accountable? Don't make it so the only gun that one can own, is no more powerful than a garden hose. Sure a fully auto is senseless for hunting, but if I want to come home with a bag of feathers that's my right. Don't focus on the guns, how much damage they can do. Focus on how those people got to the point that they felt the only way to make themselves feel better was to hurt others.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you draganm, but step back and look at the whole picture on why these people are doing the things they do. Hold them accountable. Take away their rights! Make it so that they stop and think "If I do this how is it going to effect me?" Make the jails Jails again not country clubs!
Let us play in our "back forty" with our guns if we want to. If I want to murder a 4x8 sheet of plywood, let me. If I want to do it with a semi-auto, that's my choice. If I'm too lazy to keep loading that 10 round clip and go with a fifty round clip, well that just makes me lazy. My children will grow up with a understanding that for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. I.E. "You break it, You fix it!"
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Adam
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | | Make it so that they stop and think "If I do this how is it going to effect me?" |
Using the VTech shooter as an example and then coming out with this doesn't do wonders for your argument.
| Quote: | | Make the jails Jails again not country clubs! |
Tell you what - why don't you spend a few months in a federal pen, and get back to us on your relaxing vacation?
I hate to bite on this, but it consistently amazes me how some people completely fail to understand crime. People don't say, "I'm gonna go rape and kill some people... oh, wait! Then I might have to suffer the consequences, and have my freedom taken away! Oh, but wait, they have TV and college in jail. Phew! Now I can commit crimes without worry!" Jeez... 
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: |
I hate to bite on this, but it consistently amazes me how some people completely fail to understand crime. People don't say, "I'm gonna go rape and kill some people... oh, wait! Then I might have to suffer the consequences, and have my freedom taken away! Oh, but wait, they have TV and college in jail. Phew! Now I can commit crimes without worry!" Jeez... |
But do look at how prisons were back in the 50's as opposed to how they are now. Now, really what you lose is the ability to go anywhere. Sure its not a cake walk to be in jail, but its not like it used to be when people feared going to jail. I have friends who are in jail, and maybe they make it sound like its not as bad as it really is!
However when I get irate because someone has not done something that I agree with. I stop and think if I pummel this guy how will effect me, a quick little flash forward goes through my head of what could happen.
p.s. My buddy would like me to send him a couple of cartons of ciggs anybody want to chip in!!!
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Adam
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | | Hey, why a 9mm killed 36 people! Lets put the gun in jail, forget about the guy holding onto the gun. Its the guns fault. Had some sub-human not designed and built that gun he would have never killed someone. So lets take this a bit further lets put the manufacturer in jail, or sue them for making this gun and selling it. Had a semi-automatic never been made there would never be any senseless killing. Is it not better to hold the people accountable? Don't make it so the only gun that one can own, is no more powerful than a garden hose." |
so anything that's not semI-auto with a 30 round clip is a garden hose? I think a 357 magnum revolver or a 44 mag is still a very deadly weapon without nearly the mass-murder potential of of a semi-auto 20 round clip.
| bbfarmht wrote: | | I'm not trying to pick a fight with you draganm, but step back and look at the whole picture on why these people are doing the things they do. Hold them accountable. Take away their rights! Make it so that they stop and think "If I do this how is it going to effect me?" Make the jails Jails again not country clubs! " |
I don't mind the debate, and I don't get angry about this issue but your comments seem to be oblivious of the fact that in almost every school mass-murder shooting the shooter killed himself before the police ever arrived. I don't think tougher jails will deter deranged people from commiting crime. We can hold Eddie Cho accountable in death all we want but it doesn't realy matter to his corpse or the 34 people he butchered or their familiy's.
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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And sure Peri there are flaws in parts of my argument. Pick those out and dwell on them if you wish. But the point is dragnam is somewhat right, there has been more incidents like columbine and vtech. The point is why have these taken place and what can we do as a society to stop them. Taking away guns is not one of them. Just like these towns that are adopting "Pitbull bans" another solution that doesn't work. We need to think of better ways of dealing with these problems than just taking away something.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | | And sure Peri there are flaws in parts of my argument. Pick those out and dwell on them if you wish. But the point is dragnam is somewhat right, there has been more incidents like columbine and vtech. The point is why have these taken place and what can we do as a society to stop them. Taking away guns is not one of them. Just like these towns that are adopting "Pitbull bans" another solution that doesn't work. We need to think of better ways of dealing with these problems than just taking away something. |
well Denver banned pit-bulls and i haven't heard of a single incident? Of course out in the burbs a poor woman was mauled and killed by 3 pit's. Owner of dogs had previous and numerous complaints against her in prior offenses but this time she wound up doing hard time.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2672065/detail.html
AFA preventing the salughter at our schools, I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe insitutng stronger back-ground checks to weed out people with mental problems? That would have stopped Cho but not any of the others though.
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | well Denver banned pit-bulls and i haven't heard of a single incident? Of course out in the burbs a poor woman was mauled and killed by 3 pit's. Owner of dogs had previous and numerous complaints against her in prior offenses but this time she wound up doing hard time.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2672065/detail.html
AFA preventing the salughter at our schools, I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe insitutng stronger back-ground checks to weed out people with mental problems? That would have stopped Cho but not any of the others though. |
The problem with pitbull bans is people perceive many different breeds as a pitbull! The media even will label a lab as a pitbull just to get ratings! The answer to that was what Davenport Iowa did, a vicious animal act to determine if that animal was in need of being put down for vicious behavior. 
We should try to think as a whole. It would not be smart to think "well the schools should be teaching my children right from wrong", or "its not my problem". Wouldn't you think that maybe the parents had some part in what happened when those incidents happened, even negligence. or do they just let their kids raise themselves. I've heard (and this is just hearsay) that some places hold the parents accountable for their youths actions.
But really enough of this. Lets talk guns!!!
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Adam
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: |
But really enough of this. Lets talk guns!!! |
OK!
Say what you will about those new-fangled guns... I still think these things are pretty cool. 
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | bbfarmht wrote: |
But really enough of this. Lets talk guns!!! |
OK!
Say what you will about those new-fangled guns... I still think these things are pretty cool. |
Yes I think the black powder rifles, and elephant guns are still cool. You defiantly know when one of those has been shot.
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Adam
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin
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