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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm interested in seeing what it can do, but time is always an issue. I get it looking pretty good and get lazy. I like watching it too. 
I will get the Avia disk or the basics disk. I do want to get the colors and greyscale better than they are. I'm not "super fussy" yet.
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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lostmandan
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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I've been reading up a fair bit on the other site (in archives) over the last number of evenings.
I came across a bit of information that would lead me to believe that Kelvin settings of 50 are actually the default settings after an EEPROM (I believe it would be EEPROM) reset. The actual settings for 'B' should be significantly lower so I think it makes sense that you are seeing low settings to get a proper black.
The word of caution was also to avoid upping the 'W' settings too much because it can cause the projector to go into a shutdown mode (high voltage overcurrent I assume).
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lostmandan
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Run it so it looks good, otherwise, why bother having it in the first place ?? |
Good point and very well said 
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that would be seriously not cool.
Luckily, I have to lower the settings way below 50 (W on the red looks best at 18) so I should be good from that point of view. I need to get that Avia disk, but just sliding those adjustments around I'm really loving 1080i.
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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lostmandan
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
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I also read a fair number of posts recommending the usage of the AKB function in the menus to allow the unit to set up.
Is AKB turned ON or OFF on your set? You may find turning it on makes a difference. Some searches on this forum and AVS should turn up proper instructions. Note that this does *not* involve adjusting any of the pots on the set (a very bad idea given the complex procedure to bring things back in line).
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I'll have to get back to you on that. I'm pretty sure it's off, but I can't remember where at the moment where you turn it on or off.
I guess I'm starting to live up to my callsign... The name's Green... very green, which was why I picked it to start with. 
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| lostmandan wrote: | Kai,
I was under the impression that the phosphor would suffer from running with higher contrast settings (above 50-60). I know the image is much better, but does running the PJ like this shorten the life of the tubes?
Cheers,
Dan |
Dan,
the GP and PG series are calibrated from factory to be run at brightness 50, contrast 75.
The XG series is calibrated for brightness 60, contrast 75.
These are just numbers, not absolute values. That's also why some other manufacturer may calibrate their sets for "brightness 20, contrast 17". They will drive the tubes just as hard as the NECs, despite the lower numbers for brightness & contrast.
Kai
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| lostmandan wrote: | I've been reading up a fair bit on the other site (in archives) over the last number of evenings.
I came across a bit of information that would lead me to believe that Kelvin settings of 50 are actually the default settings after an EEPROM (I believe it would be EEPROM) reset. The actual settings for 'B' should be significantly lower so I think it makes sense that you are seeing low settings to get a proper black.
The word of caution was also to avoid upping the 'W' settings too much because it can cause the projector to go into a shutdown mode (high voltage overcurrent I assume). |
Yes, default for teh Kelvin/WB menu is "50"
That is actually very logical, since NEC does the reference mechanical white balance settings with all electronic WB settings normalized ("50" in this case").
What the Kelvin/WB menu allows you to do is compensate for:
- tube aging
- color shifts due to screen material (you should rather get a new screen in that case, though)
- room anolamies (pink or yellow walls or the like )
- after installing new tubes you may have to compensate for slightly different electrical specs of the new tube set vs. the old tube set (but most of that should already be taken care of by simply activating AKB briefly).
The menu's most important application is white balance calibration using a spectroradiometer or optical comparator, though.
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| lostmandan wrote: | I also read a fair number of posts recommending the usage of the AKB function in the menus to allow the unit to set up.
Is AKB turned ON or OFF on your set? You may find turning it on makes a difference. Some searches on this forum and AVS should turn up proper instructions. Note that this does *not* involve adjusting any of the pots on the set (a very bad idea given the complex procedure to bring things back in line). |
Here are some posts about AKB:
| kschmit2 wrote: |
To "permanently" enable AKB you have to set it in the "Source Information screen":
Press Adjust and enter your passcode
then press INFO, go to page 2 using the up/down arrows, navigate to AKB using the up/down arrows, then press enter.
Now press END, STORE, ENTER
AKB is now enabled until you manually switch it off again.
Note you will only have to enable it periodically, and can then switch it off again.
I think Doug recommends powering off the PJ at least once before you disable AKB again, to ensure that the new values stick.
Kai |
| kschmit2 wrote: | | Juvental604 wrote: | | I have a Nec Pg 6 and Im having a problem with akb too. When its enabled theres a thick white line at the top of the image that wont go away even with blanking. I tried enabling it the way you guys said in this thread but that didnt work..although im guessing thats cause the xg is different. |
The PG behaves exactly the same way as the XG.
The NEC AKB system is designed in a way that you don't have to keep AKB enabled.
Typically you would enable AKB after a tube swap, an every couple of hundred hours.
In normal operating state you would have AKB disabled.
Kai |
| kschmit2 wrote: | Most likely the AKB lines. Turn AKB off and the lines should be gone.
You do not need to have AKB enabled all the time.
Press ADJUST, enter passcode, press INFO, scroll down to p02 and select AKB, hit ENTER, select OFF, hit ENTER
Press END, return to USER MODE, and SAVE if asked to do so.
Remeber to turn on AKB periodically (every 6-12 months or so), save, keep it on for 5-10 minutes, shut PJ down. Power it up again, turn AKB off, save. |
| Satanier wrote: |
I have an XG as well, and have been curious, how often and for how long should AKB be run? |
| kschmit2 wrote: | every couple of month for about 10 minutes as mentioned in my previous post.
Originally posted by Doug:
| dbaisey wrote: |
Just know the NECs and they run AKB in the off position by default and dont need that darn line up to tell it what to do. Every now and then you can balance by turning on for a few minutes (noted in the service manual) but thats about all it needs. Doug |
Axatax explained AKB a bit for the Sony G70, but the operating principle is the same for NEC PG and XG series PJs:
| Axatax wrote: | It's a closed feedback loop. If you look at the block diagrams in the service manual, you'll see there's a control line connected to a pin on each tube, which runs back to the C block, then back to either the B or Y* boards, which in turn signals the PA board to adjust output current for one of the CRT grids. That's *roughtly* how it works.
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| kschmit2 wrote: | Found another interesting post about AKB,
| TSE wrote: | Each neck card measures the beam current of each tube while it's line is present. The line is a known value of drive. I'll guess it's 5 or 10%. The projector then sets the cut-off so the line is indeed its 5 or 10% of max beam current. If the measurement is 3% of the expected current then the projector will increase the cut-off until the expected reading is attained. Opposite if the measurement is 15%. The cut-off can be changed with the G-2 or the G-1 or cathode voltage can be changed.
Scott |
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Cool,
I have to clean up my mess in the basement from the weekend before I'm allowed to play with it, so I'll let you know in a bit...
I did notice every time I hit the kelvin button a red arcing band shows up over the image. It won't go away until I select the input again. Is that the AKB thing mentioned above ("thick white line")?
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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yes, those are the AKB lines (there is one for each tube).
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Mr. Green
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1394
Location: Calgary
TV/Projector: Marquee 9501LC / NEC 9PG+
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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I confirmed AKB is not "on" any of my inputs in the list. All have it turned off.
Why does the line appear everytime I hit "kelvin" and it won't go away until I reselect the input?
_________________
You can be young only once but, you can be immature forever.
Current Projector Marquee9501LC with PS3 (BLu-Ray) at 1080P LOVE IT! Screen is an Elunevision 120" 4:3 (2.4 gain - no hotspots). (also own a NEC 9PG+)
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. Green wrote: | I confirmed AKB is not "on" any of my inputs in the list. All have it turned off.
Why does the line appear everytime I hit "kelvin" and it won't go away until I reselect the input? |
AKB is enabled automatically when you select the Kelvin menu, it also occurs when you select the Brightness control, but often it will just flash once the first time you select that control, then turn off. That has been my experience using NEC's.
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lostmandan
Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I discovered that the "DP/PD" board (as I have called it) is actually the "H.WAVE PWB".
A reference is made to swapping deflection boards between 9/9PLUS on AVS, but there isn't much information about what difference there is.
How would one safely test another deflection board without causing problems such as killing tubes (deflection failure, for example)? Is this a concern on the PG, or is the scan fail protection rock-solid?
I know the standard rear projection TV procedure would be to pull the neck boards completely until verifying H and V deflection is present.
Any thoughts?
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