| Author |
Message |
Tedd
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Ontario
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think you covered the top five rather nicely.
Further down the list, I'd add some form of remotely controllable lighting and adding midbass punch.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
One thing I am hoping will help my system rid this annoying ground loop problem I am having with the audio and video is an Isolated Ground Transformer. Just won a 5KVA one with dual sheilded windings on E-bay Isolated Ground transformer
Bob Stephan swears by it. It is used in very sensitive equipment situations and the medical field and many recording studios. basically is is like having a separate ground for all your Equipment with no noise or interferance from out side sources. No connection to house ground as it has its own virtual ground as I understand it. Did some research on it and jumped into it. 5KVA should be plenty, there are always some comming up and one is finishing in an hour or so, i'd be bidding on that if my offer didnt go through on this one. Do a search on them and decide. I am putting one in and will let everyone know what I think. it will go between my main panel box and the sub pnael box I have for my theater. But for less than a few hundred dollars i think its worth it or at least I hop so.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tedd wrote: | | Further down the list, I'd add some form of remotely controllable lighting and adding midbass punch. |
Remote control lighting is certainly a "nice to have". The Lutron IR dimmer I bought for $50 from Home Depot was worth the money. I have 7 or 8 pot lights around the HT all on the same circuit so that I can dim up/down as needed from my remote. Normally it's just a full on or off. Hold the button down and it dims down slowly as the movie's starting to let your eyes adjust slowly.
As for: "Midbass punch". What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about artificially boosting the mid-bass region? Why???? Flat response is what you want for a proper representation of the original soundtrack. Sure, you can dip or cut any range you like based on your own preferences but it isn't an accurate representation of the original sound.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ecrabb wrote: | | paw wrote: | | 6. A beer bitch |
How could we have forgotten the most expensive home theater accessory of all! You could buy all the esoteric gear you could find and it wouldn't add up what one of THOSE costs!
It isn't the acquisition cost that gets you, either - it's the long-term O&M. Ouch!
SC |
Just rent one!  It's a LOT cheaper than purchasing one. Plus, you get to try out different models. 
_________________
Aubrey
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary M.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nashou66 wrote: | One thing I am hoping will help my system rid this annoying ground loop problem I am having with the audio and video is an Isolated Ground Transformer. Just won a 5KVA one with dual sheilded windings on E-bay Isolated Ground transformer
Bob Stephan swears by it. It is used in very sensitive equipment situations and the medical field and many recording studios. basically is is like having a separate ground for all your Equipment with no noise or interferance from out side sources. No connection to house ground as it has its own virtual ground as I understand it. Did some research on it and jumped into it. 5KVA should be plenty, there are always some comming up and one is finishing in an hour or so, i'd be bidding on that if my offer didnt go through on this one. Do a search on them and decide. I am putting one in and will let everyone know what I think. it will go between my main panel box and the sub pnael box I have for my theater. But for less than a few hundred dollars i think its worth it or at least I hop so.
Athanasios |
watch out Athan, any mentioning of cleaner power is flame suit time, I am sewing you one right now
one of the best things for my entire system was working on power and shielded cables for everything, that included:
1)DIY balanced transformers
2)shielded AC cabling to outlets
2)shielded speaker cable, all interconnects, power cables etc. ( not $$$) every cable has a external drain wire cable connected to the shielding, all these are tied together and drained to a clean ground connection on a outlet
all this stuff was DIY
the noise floor in my system went from a pretty decent hiss down to 99% inaudible with my ears at the tweeters, amazing stuff
all this would be in my top 5 at # 3 or # 4 with a 100% black HT room being in there as well
Athan, if that transformer you bought has dual primaries and secondaries wire it for balanced for even better performance  you would only get a 20-amp circuit worth of juice from it that way though as you must half the output rating
-Gary
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ecrabb wrote: | | paw wrote: | | 6. A beer bitch |
How could we have forgotten the most expensive home theater accessory of all! You could buy all the esoteric gear you could find and it wouldn't add up what one of THOSE costs!
It isn't the acquisition cost that gets you, either - it's the long-term O&M. Ouch!
SC |
Expensive? All you need to do is buy a few beers and wait until last call. No one said she had to be beautiful.
_________________
It's good to be the king.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is like debating why the answer to the ultimate question of Life, the Universe, and Everything is 42.
HD from SD is probably why the question is asked, and overly obvious. I think this thing is really a what do you have, what are you looking for, where are you putting it(the theater), etc., etc.
Now if we're someone upgrading from a SD TV and best case, a stereo receiver, I'd say they'll get more mileage making sure at least a 5.1 sound system is budgeted. An HDTV is a waste without a decent sound system.
_________________
It's good to be the king.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garyfritz wrote: | | You know, I built some major sound-treatment panels for my HT shortly after I built it: huge 4'x8' panels of 4" OC703 rigid fiberglass behind L & R, and 2" of OC703 mounted 2" off the wall behind the center and on both side 1st-reflection points. See diagram & pic below. I expected major improvements in dialog intelligibility and other areas. In reality I hardly noticed any change at all. It may have been because of the low-end Onkyo HTIB speakers I was using, but I was pretty disappointed.So maybe room treatments only give major benefits if you already have pretty darn good speakers? |
good sepakers are important before good sound. You don't need exoitic speakers by any means, but i looked at the limited available specs of the honkyo HTIB speakers and they were really poor. something like 85dB efficeincy and no frequency range to speak of. AAMOF, I don' tthink they much of anything below 100Hz and even the mid-band dipped down well below. they're bascially high frequency squawkers.
However it's not just speaker quality and side walls. Doc makes a good point in that the ceiling is the most overlooked and it's SO important. I'm currently guilty of this too, but It took me a while to realize. I have 7 foot ceilings in front half of room, which puts the speaker about 4 feet away. Thats the same distance as side-walls, DUH  With the exception of an exotic driver like a ribbon Tweeter, normal cone Speakers radiate out in a 360 degree. the speaker will interact with a ceiling the same way as a a side wall equal distance away. Needless to say this is top of the to-do list for me and it can be fairly cheap as opposed to expensive equipment.
| David_Web wrote: | I would say that diffusion is better than absorption. It adds "room" and "volume" to the sound. (it's more complicated then that but it's OK to generalize)
Absorption might make it dead. Unless you have terrible problem with ringing and stuff like that.
I would say that group delay and standing waves (and ringing) is more important than frequency response (which will be ugly regardless) It's easy to experiment. Some plants usually does wonders. At least for testing. (just don't let the significant other catch you if you don't want it permanent regardless how it sounds). |
it's good to bring up diffusors. They should not be overlooked but i'm not sure a blanket statement like "diffusors ar ebtter than abosrbtion" is true. In most rooms, a mixture of absorbtion and diffusion is usually called for. the determining factors are number of windows, Wood or carpet floors, etc.
A carpeted room wiht only one window would call for more diffusors while A very bright room needs absorbtion. here's a place that sells both http://www.auralex.com/c_sound_diffusion/c_sound_diffusion.asp
also, those with the inclination to sift throguh it Here's an artice labout the whiole topic http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| draganm wrote: | good to bring up diffusors. They should not be overlooked but i'm not sure a blanket statement like "diffusors ar ebtter than abosrbtion" is true. In most rooms, a mixture of absorbtion and diffusion is usually called for. the determining factors are number of windows, Wood or carpet floors, etc.
|
Exactly. In an ideal world, you want the sound to stop and die, because the reverberations will muddy the sound and your speakers should take care of the appropriate diffusion. Of course, replicating a full 360 sound becomes more difficult in a 5 to 7 channel system if you kill everything.
I think the 3 biggest factors are channel/speaker configuration in the room and personal taste. Absorbing and diffusing can have similar effects to changing from mono/bi/di/tri-pole speakers, and can drastically affect the way all of these sound. In the end, personal taste is what is most important.
I think as channels expand, absorbing will be more important then diffusing.
_________________
It's good to be the king.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anderssh
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
A lot of good points in this thread!
I've been debating lately (with myself) weather to invest in a HD setup or colour filtering (via HD-144 lenses) and greyscale calibration for my BG808s. It's one or the other for now due to the amount of money involved. So far I've reasoned that it's better to make the best of what I have now, in part due to the large amount of DVDs I have, but if the difference between HD and scaled SD is as dramatic as you make it sound maybe that's the way to go? I have never actually seen HD material on a proper large screen so I have no reference. What do you guys think?
Another option would be to just use Rosco filters and do the HD thing for now, then upgrade with lenses later. One benefit to consider with this alternative is the added gamma boost that comes with whatever device I choose to go in between the player and PJ.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why not get the Rosco filters and decide how much you like it? That's a very cheap experiment. Once you've added those filters **AND RECALIBRATED YOUR GRAYSCALE**, you'll have a good idea what the filtered lenses will do for you. You MUST do a recalibration with the new filters in place or it will look awful.
You may decide the Rosco's are "good enough" for now, and you can invest in HD first. But be aware the Rosco's will add a bit of haze or filminess to your image. You might love the colors but hate the haze; if so, you can go for the HD144's first.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Angus_rg wrote: | | TNow if we're someone upgrading from a SD TV and best case, a stereo receiver, I'd say they'll get more mileage making sure at least a 5.1 sound system is budgeted. An HDTV is a waste without a decent sound system. |
I don't consider adding 5.1 audio (or 7.1) as an "upgrade" to an existing HT. Without multi-channel surround sound you never had an HT in the first place. Without multi-channel and a big picture, you don't have a home theater.
If going 5.1 is a 'recommended HT upgrade' then we should also mention upgrading from black and white TV to colour. 
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anderssh wrote: | A lot of good points in this thread!
I've been debating lately (with myself) weather to invest in a HD setup or colour filtering (via HD-144 lenses) and greyscale calibration for my BG808s. It's one or the other for now due to the amount of money involved. So far I've reasoned that it's better to make the best of what I have now, in part due to the large amount of DVDs I have, but if the difference between HD and scaled SD is as dramatic as you make it sound maybe that's the way to go? I have never actually seen HD material on a proper large screen so I have no reference. What do you guys think? |
Hard question to answer as we don't know off 'off' your greyscale is now. We know your colours/primaries are off because of the lack of colour filtering but don't know how far off the greyscale is.
If you've never seen good HD (Blu-ray) on your setup you're in for a treat. It's a phenominal difference (at least to me).
I know you don't want to hear this but I would do all of the above.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anderssh
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 9
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for your input guys!
| kal wrote: |
Hard question to answer as we don't know off 'off' your greyscale is now. We know your colours/primaries are off because of the lack of colour filtering but don't know how far off the greyscale is.
If you've never seen good HD (Blu-ray) on your setup you're in for a treat. It's a phenominal difference (at least to me).
I know you don't want to hear this but I would do all of the above.
Kal |
Oh eventually I will do both. One of them will just have to wait a few months more, maybe until after Christmas. Also, I'll borrow a colorimeter from a friend so that part is "free".
I upgraded from a BD800, which has tinted glycol, so I know how much decent colours add to picture quality. After marveling over the increase in sharpness, I remember being a bit disappointed the first time I started the 808 viewing the DVE colour bars, hardly being able to distinguish between the green and yellow ones...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rpruen
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Southwest UK
TV/Projector: BD701 FTS, BD808s
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Oh eventually I will do both. One of them will just have to wait a few months more, maybe until after Christmas. Also, I'll borrow a colorimeter from a friend so that part is "free
I upgraded from a BD800, which has tinted glycol, so I know how much decent colours add to picture quality. After marveling over the increase in sharpness, I remember being a bit disappointed the first time I started the 808 viewing the DVE colour bars, hardly being able to distinguish between the green and yellow ones... |
If it is any help, you can fill the 808 with Sony colour tinted glycol (if it isn't a rare LC version) and that works a treat. You need to up the red and green output a little, but less than if you are using coloured film.
Again I can't reccomend HD content enough. The 808s won't quite fully resolve 1080p but it's close, and I can't stand the flicker with 1080I. It still looks awesome though, much better than you might expect.
Richard
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: |
If you've never seen good HD (Blu-ray) on your setup you're in for a treat. It's a phenominal difference (at least to me).
|
Kal is right on the money. Based on most of his posts, I probably don't need to say that.
My father in law was one of those upconversion is all anyone ever needs. I took my xbox over and played The Bourne identity on his 1080p DLP. He was astounded how realistic and the amount of details in Bourne's sweater and was swearing it was the best thing he'd ever seen, and the fisherman hadn't even attempted to pull a bullet out of him.
_________________
It's good to be the king.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's not only the increased resolution, it's also the increased colour gamut (more colours) and reduced amount of noise such as macroblocking, edge-enhancement, and other issues that usually come up with DVD scaled up to be viewed on a large screen.
Throw in the good quality Blu-ray (like the 'must-have' ones I list here[) and the different between the DVD and Blu-ray version isn't subtle at all on a large screen, even with a projector that can 'only' do 1080i (which is what I use).
Blu-ray (and HD DVD) are also considerably better that broadcast (satellite or cable) HD as a lot of broadcast HD is actually lower rez and has a much much lower bitrate. Lower bitrate means that anything that moves turns into a soft or blocky mess and doesn't have the same temporal resolution.
I had had satellite HD for approximately 7 years before I bought into Blu-ray - I knew that Blu-ray would look even better but was actually surprised at how much better it looked than broadcast HD.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | It's not only the increased resolution, it's also the increased colour gamut (more colours) and reduced amount of noise such as macroblocking, edge-enhancement, and other issues that usually come up with DVD scaled up to be viewed on a large screen.
|
I kind of take detail to mean that as well. In the scene I mentioned, I think that was really what made the sweater look like you could actually touch it, more so then the increased resolution.
_________________
It's good to be the king.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
