CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[whatagoof]

Wow, awesome replies, thanks everybody!

And extra-thanks to Grog for the offer to check out his CRT projector setup. I certainly don't mind the wait, and it seems like I might be better served by waiting (until I've a bigger budget) to buy a CRT projector anyway. So I'll just start saving up, come take a look at Grog's, and then see how I feel.

The only question still in my mind at this point then is how much it costs to maintain a $2k projector? If it costs a ton to keep it running, then that might curb my enthusiasm a little bit, since at $2k LCD/Plasma flatscreens reach a size that would be comparable to what I want out of a projector (if I sit close-up.) So costs of maintenance and comparative image quality become a concern at that price point, as opposed to the $500 range where I know for certain that a CRT projector would be tops.

Oh, and another question - how do CRT projectors handle 2.35:1 material in comparison to the way that it is handled by digital projectors/screens, which are locked to 16:9 at best?

Thanks again everybody!

[grogthegreat]

Cost to maintain is one of CRT's huge benefits over other types of projectors. A bulb in a LCD or DLP projector is good for about 2000 hours max but they can and will randomly blow at any time. Plus, after only about 500 hours the brightness has dropped a lot. New bulbs for those projectors are very expensive if you can find them as the manufacturer will discontinue them as they release newer projectors.

CRTs on the other hand use bulbs that generally last to 10,000 with a very very slow darkening of the picture. Put another way, 10,000 hours is one 2 hour movie every single night for over 13 years!

When a LCD or DLP projector breaks, it is usually gone for good. Just throw it away. If a CRT ever fails, the fault can usually be pinpointed to a single board which can easily be replaced. There are tons of parts on the used market and Curt Palme is your best source.

As for aspect ratios; CRTs are not a fixed pixel machine so it will handle just about anything you want. 3:4 material will use the most raster area but many people here, including myself, watch lots of movies in 2.35:1 with no problems.

[Mr. Green]

Maintenance cost is up in the air. Keep in mind most of these machines are getting old (especially the entry level ones). If you buy from a dealer like Curt there is some warranty and lots of tech support. If you buy from e-bay or from a paper, who knows.

Digitals need a $300-500 bulb every 1-2000 hours, not to mention color wheels and such breaking down. CRT tubes vary in price but last about 5-10 times longer.

As far as your 2.35 to one question, hopefully this makes more sense. Lord of the Rings is a good example. You will still see all of the film, but the vertical height is lessened to show hte whole image. It's not too bad. See the Primer regarding tube wear. If you watch a ton of 2.35:1 material then go back to 4:3, you are going to see the burn after a long time since the tube wasn't being used at the top and bottom.

[whatagoof]

Hi, thanks for the replies!

So it sounds like there's not really much difference between how a CRT projector and an LCD projector would handle 2.35:1, except that a CRT projector will need to "switch it up" in terms of formats played in order to keep an even brightness?

At a budget of $1k-$2k, how would a CRT projector compare to a flatscreen TV in terms of image quality? When I was going to spend only $500, it seemed to me that the CRT projector would be unquestionably better - but at $1k-$2k I've no clue what the case might be. When/if I get to see Grog's setup, of course, I'll get some idea, but in the meantime I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts on the matter.

Okay, thanks again, you guys are great! Bye for now!

[whatagoof]

Hi again. It's been suggested to me, on another forum, that a Sony 1272 with mint tubes would fit my budget of $500.

Just how much better would these higher-priced CRT projectors be than that one, assuming I put in all the time to adjust it properly?

Okay, thanks, bye!

[grogthegreat]

there would be a huge difference. You should be able to find an intermediate level projector with your budget. A 1272 is worth very little nowadays.

[whatagoof]

Hi, I thought of another question!

What frame rates can CRT projectors display?

For example, there's 24 fps, 25 fps, 29.9/30 fps, soon there'll be 48 fps, or even 60 fps... So how does a CRT projector handle all of these different frame rates?

Thanks, bye!

[Bucketfoot]

[grogthegreat]

It will display just about anything you send it as long as it isn't really high. The limit depends on the projector but usually isn't an issue. I think 60 and 72 are the most common used here but you can send it anything reasonable.
-Grog

[whatagoof]

Thanks for the replies!

Yeah, if I could find a good starter CRT projector for about $250 locally, I think I'd start there, just to get myself familiar with the technology and to give myself some financial "slack" while enjoying an entry-level home theater. I'm definitely interested in getting one of the $2k-ish models within a year at the most though.

Ok, thanks again, bye!

[whatagoof]

Hi again! I have some more questions!

Now that I'm pretty much sold on getting a CRT projector (instead of a digital flatpanel or digital projector), I'm starting to wonder if many of the users on this forum have done a lot of comparison of the image quality produced by different intermediate/high-end CRT projector units, such that they could recommend one particular model or brand over another.

I've looked at the best/worst page on Curt's website, but it doesn't seem to list any particular subjective viewing advantages that one projector might have relative to other projectors - and, I'm not sure if I understand the way that the list is organized. Each section, and each sub-section, seems to be organized so that the projectors with less-capable technical features are higher, and then the more robust models are lower, so is it a worst-to-best rather than best-to-worst list?

Anyway, I guess my point is that I'm just curious about the more subtle differences in image quality, sturdiness, longevity, and availability of the mid and high range CRT projectors. So to hear comparisons similar to those that I can read about digital projectors (like, "This model has better blacks and contrast, but this model has better color anda nicer UI," etc.) would be really helpful as I begin to consider which specific model I might try to buy.

If I had to put one quality that I'm looking for above all others, though, that would be "sharpness," as in clarity, as I've pretty poor eyesight and am always turning up sharpness on displays to make up for it. Secondly, I'd like to get a projector that had a lot of life left in it, and that I had some hope of finding replacement parts for once it became necessary.

Okay, thanks again, bye!

[David_Web]

To be honest the picture quality will be more dependent on how well it it setup then what model/make it is as long as it's in the same category.
Although some PJs that it getting a little on the old side might have a hard time keeping up.

Personally I prefer Marquees because I like how they are built up. Easy to work with IMHO. You can swap almost any part in it from any model with ease.

any 8" should be able to produce a sharp enough picture.

[whatagoof]

Hi again! Thanks for your reply, David!

I was just searching around online trying to find pictures of images being projected by good CRT projectors, using Google Image search. The only thing I found that could be considered indicative of the quality of a well set-up system was of some Sony G90's which are, I assume, unfortunately outside of even my delayed budget ($2k.) But the picture was incredible - as clear, if not clearer, than a direct-view digital. Brilliant!

I hope that the picture from projectors nearer my budget will be able to come close. According to Curt's for-sale pages, there are a few Marquees near my delayed budget at this time. I'm a little confused about some of the prices though, because sometimes it seems like better models are being sold for less than older models... In any case, I hope that, whatever model I get, I can manage to order one with relatively new tubes, to delay the headache of replacement for as long as possible.

At this point, since I don't think I'll have the opportunity to see more than one or two CRT projectors, I guess the best idea is to just save up, then once I've the $'s to ask Curt to help me choosing the best CRT projector I can afford?

Anyway, I'd love to see more pictures of images being projected from other models of CRT Projector (besides the G90) so if you know any good threads with that sort of thing then please point me towards them so I can go look. Thanks, bye!

[David_Web]

Look through this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900831

The sharpness is the extra 10% when jumping up high in price. Also brightness if you go with 9". Size of screen also determines how much oompf is needed.
You can still get it to look pretty good with an intermediate pj. Especially of you spend some time with it.
Oh and once you have seen a color filtered PJ you don't want to go back. So down the road if you choose a 8" figure in some color filtered HD144 or 145 with Joust adapters. It will be a lot sharper and a LOT better colors.

[gonyr]

Keep in mind that pricing is dictated by tube condition at least as much, if not more, than it is by the age or model of the projector.

For some absolutely amazing screenshots, there is a thread (many pages long).
http://curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5318

[whatagoof]

Awesome links, thanks again everybody!

I just want to check something to make sure I understand -

Assuming a moderate level of contrast/brightness, and a usage per day not exceeding 2 hours, and of course that the machine isn't jostled, nudged or shifted, how often will I need to tweak/reset the convergence settings of an intermediate-level or low-high-end projector? Every month?

[David_Web]

It depends on how well you do the setup from the beginning. How well mechanical and magnetics are set up. And on how picky you are.
I read somewhere that a few minutes every two weeks or so. Only to nudge convergence back to where it should be.
It depends on the machine so it's hard to tell.

[whatagoof]

If I'm setting up my theater for usage solely by myself - that is, arranging everything around a single viewer, sitting quite close, with a curved screen that fills approximately 85-90 percent of my field of vision - does that necessitate any special considerations in terms of features of the projector or positioning of the projector, or any other technical issues of which I should be aware?
Also, would such an individualized focus of the theater permit me to get the same subjective viewing value out of a lower-priced CRT pj as could be gotten from a high-end CRT pj in a multiple-viewer configuration? If so, to what degree?

Thanks again!

[whatagoof]

I hope I didn't ask a dumb question there... :\

[grogthegreat]

To keep things simple: no to both questions. I would advise a flat screen for simplicities sake.
-grog