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talisto
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: CRT RPTV w/ Eye-One & HCFR requires CRT mode |
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Hey gang,
Just wanted to share my recent experiences with the Eye-One colorimeter using HCFR. I've seen it mentioned on multiple sources (including Kal's guide here) that every type of display except for a direct-view CRT should use "LCD" mode for the colorimeter settings in HCFR, including CRT-based RPTVs. However, when I attemped to use the Eye-One in LCD mode suctioned directly to the screen on my CRT RPTV (Hitachi 46W500), one of two things would happen: it would a) (occasionally) respond with "No data from sensor", or b) (more frequently) lock up HCFR until I disconnected the Eye-One from the USB port.
I found that the sensor would slowly return data if I held the sensor 6+ inches away from the TV's screen, but as soon as it was placed directly on the screen, it would freak out. When placed on the LCD screen of my laptop, it responded quickly and accurately, so the sensor itself is fine.
Regardless, switching HCFR's mode to "CRT" resolved the problem, and the results are quick and (hopefully) accurate. I suspect the sensor was having trouble with the refresh rate of my TV when in LCD mode. Perhaps the calibration guide should be changed to suggest CRT mode to all CRT-based TVs, including RPTVs. Anyone else have any similar experiences?
Thanks for putting so much time and effort into your calibration guide, Kal! It's a fantastic resource. 
Regards,
Talisto
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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talisto
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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Hey Kal,
Occasionally I'd get a reading back once after first connecting the colorimeter, but once it was "stalled", i waited quite a long time before pulling the plug.. at least a few minutes. Usually as soon as I disconnected the colorimeter, HCFR would "unlock" and would respond with "No data from sensor". The few times when the reading did come back, though, it was quite clearly incorrect. After I switched to CRT mode, the results were reliable and always came back within a couple of seconds, at every IRE.
I'd be curious to hear if anyone else with a CRT RPTV has similar experiences, hopefully I'm not the only one around here with one of those old beasts. 
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surrey lad
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 24
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| talisto wrote: | Hey Kal,
Occasionally I'd get a reading back once after first connecting the colorimeter, but once it was "stalled", i waited quite a long time before pulling the plug.. at least a few minutes. Usually as soon as I disconnected the colorimeter, HCFR would "unlock" and would respond with "No data from sensor". The few times when the reading did come back, though, it was quite clearly incorrect. After I switched to CRT mode, the results were reliable and always came back within a couple of seconds, at every IRE.
I'd be curious to hear if anyone else with a CRT RPTV has similar experiences, hopefully I'm not the only one around here with one of those old beasts. |
I'm getting exactly the same problem using my one-eye pointed at the screen, i'm using a marquee 8111+ with coloured 145s.
I thought my problem was due to my old P3 dell laptop not having enough cpu or ram.
I'll have a play tonight in CRT mode, see what happens.
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| talisto wrote: | Hey Kal,
Occasionally I'd get a reading back once after first connecting the colorimeter, but once it was "stalled", i waited quite a long time before pulling the plug.. at least a few minutes. Usually as soon as I disconnected the colorimeter, HCFR would "unlock" and would respond with "No data from sensor". The few times when the reading did come back, though, it was quite clearly incorrect. After I switched to CRT mode, the results were reliable and always came back within a couple of seconds, at every IRE.
I'd be curious to hear if anyone else with a CRT RPTV has similar experiences, hopefully I'm not the only one around here with one of those old beasts. |
I experienced the same thing as you on both Mits CRT RPTV's I calibrated as well as the very fast response time when doing an LCD tv. My question for you is, when in CRT mode, HCFR attempts to detect the refresh rate of the display, was it able to successfully detect it on your Hitachi RPTV with the device touching the screen?
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CooLJ92
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: I'm having the same probelm with my CRT RPTV |
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I recently got my iOne and tried to calibrate my Hitachi 61UX10B and also experienced this problem when set to LCD. Once I switched to CRT, the colormeter worked fine.
One question for you all is, when it ask you to calibrate the iOne, where do you place it to get it calibrated, small white window on your PC/laptop or a 100% white screen on the TV???
Thank you.
jj
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: I'm having the same probelm with my CRT RPTV |
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| CooLJ92 wrote: | I recently got my iOne and tried to calibrate my Hitachi 61UX10B and also experienced this problem when set to LCD. Once I switched to CRT, the colormeter worked fine.
One question for you all is, when it ask you to calibrate the iOne, where do you place it to get it calibrated, small white window on your PC/laptop or a 100% white screen on the TV???
Thank you.
jj |
If you are using the HCFR software, you calibrate the device by placing it on a flat, black surface (I use the surface of a black DVD case). It will only take a second or two. I recommend reading and re-reading the superb guide written by Kal on this site (Greyscale for Dummies) as it will cover it all in detail. Good luck with your calibration.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:21 am Post subject: Re: I'm having the same probelm with my CRT RPTV |
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| kal wrote: | | ExCavTanker wrote: | | I recommend reading and re-reading the superb guide written by Kal on this site (Greyscale for Dummies) as it will cover it all in detail. |
Stop it... you're going to make my head bloat.
Kal |
I just call em as I see em, and thanks to you I'm seein' em a WHOLE lot better  .
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: Re: I'm having the same probelm with my CRT RPTV |
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| CooLJ92 wrote: | I recently got my iOne and tried to calibrate my Hitachi 61UX10B and also experienced this problem when set to LCD. Once I switched to CRT, the colormeter worked fine.
One question for you all is, when it ask you to calibrate the iOne, where do you place it to get it calibrated, small white window on your PC/laptop or a 100% white screen on the TV???
Thank you.
jj |
Cool,
The short answer is to display a 100% window on your tv and place the sensor on the tv screen to calibrate it for CRT mode. LCD mode uses the flat black surface. Be careful, if you have OCD you will not watch movies again as you try to get those deltaE's just a 'little' bit better .
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:19 am Post subject: HCFR CRT Mode |
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Kal,
I've used the LCD mode for the two Mits RPTV's I've calibrated as well and experienced the long delays and occasional hangups. I tried CRT mode tonight and the verdict is it was MUCH faster than the LCD mode and did not lock up or hang up, also the deltaE's were pretty close as well.
I'm beginning to think that CRT mode should be the mode that is used for CRT RPTV's. I can see where the CRT FPTV's would be difficult for the sensor to see the scan rate off the screen. Your thoughts?
I also tried the Blu-Ray DVE HD I just got in the mail today instead of my usual AVS HD 709 disc. It was fairly easy to move around the menus for grayscale and had some interesting information especially for those new to user audio and video calibration.
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richmond5
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:22 am Post subject: Re: HCFR CRT Mode |
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| ExCavTanker wrote: | Kal,
I've used the LCD mode for the two Mits RPTV's I've calibrated as well and experienced the long delays and occasional hangups. I tried CRT mode tonight and the verdict is it was MUCH faster than the LCD mode and did not lock up or hang up, also the deltaE's were pretty close as well.
I'm beginning to think that CRT mode should be the mode that is used for CRT RPTV's. I can see where the CRT FPTV's would be difficult for the sensor to see the scan rate off the screen. Your thoughts?
I also tried the Blu-Ray DVE HD I just got in the mail today instead of my usual AVS HD 709 disc. It was fairly easy to move around the menus for grayscale and had some interesting information especially for those new to user audio and video calibration. |
That my problem, I have a marquee 8500 and the sensor cannot see the scan rate off the screen. It fail the cal test everytime when I used the crt mode, frustration! 
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: Re: HCFR CRT Mode |
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| richmond5 wrote: | | ExCavTanker wrote: | Kal,
I've used the LCD mode for the two Mits RPTV's I've calibrated as well and experienced the long delays and occasional hangups. I tried CRT mode tonight and the verdict is it was MUCH faster than the LCD mode and did not lock up or hang up, also the deltaE's were pretty close as well.
I'm beginning to think that CRT mode should be the mode that is used for CRT RPTV's. I can see where the CRT FPTV's would be difficult for the sensor to see the scan rate off the screen. Your thoughts?
I also tried the Blu-Ray DVE HD I just got in the mail today instead of my usual AVS HD 709 disc. It was fairly easy to move around the menus for grayscale and had some interesting information especially for those new to user audio and video calibration. |
That my problem, I have a marquee 8500 and the sensor cannot see the scan rate off the screen. It fail the cal test everytime when I used the crt mode, frustration! |
What happens when you aim the sensor at the screen using the LCD mode? Are you able to test each level of the greyscale without lockups? If not then switch to CRT mode, display a 100% white window image from the source and aim the sensor directly at the projector to see if it detects the scan rate then turn it back to the screen as per kal's instructions once calibrated. If the LCD mode works off the screen without problems I say use that. Regardless, ONE of the two methods should work, but since I don't own a FP I can't say for sure.
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richmond5
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Re: HCFR CRT Mode |
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That my problem, I have a marquee 8500 and the sensor cannot see the scan rate off the screen. It fail the cal test everytime when I used the crt mode, frustration! [/quote]
What happens when you aim the sensor at the screen using the LCD mode? Are you able to test each level of the greyscale without lockups? If not then switch to CRT mode, display a 100% white window image from the source and aim the sensor directly at the projector to see if it detects the scan rate then turn it back to the screen as per kal's instructions once calibrated. If the LCD mode works off the screen without problems I say use that. Regardless, ONE of the two methods should work, but since I don't own a FP I can't say for sure.[/quote]
Hi:
Using LCD mode , it would freeze up at no time. I try your suggestion of using the sensor facing the crt with the diffuser on , it works. I then proceed to go the grayscale cal with the diffuser facing the crt in diffuser mode. I wonder had everyone tried that? Thanks for your suggestion!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: HCFR CRT Mode |
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| richmond5 wrote: | | That my problem, I have a marquee 8500 and the sensor cannot see the scan rate off the screen. It fail the cal test everytime when I used the crt mode, frustration! |
What happens when you aim the sensor at the screen using the LCD mode? Are you able to test each level of the greyscale without lockups? If not then switch to CRT mode, display a 100% white window image from the source and aim the sensor directly at the projector to see if it detects the scan rate then turn it back to the screen as per kal's instructions once calibrated. If the LCD mode works off the screen without problems I say use that. Regardless, ONE of the two methods should work, but since I don't own a FP I can't say for sure.[/quote]
Hi:
Using LCD mode , it would freeze up at no time. I try your suggestion of using the sensor facing the crt with the diffuser on , it works. I then proceed to go the grayscale cal with the diffuser facing the crt in diffuser mode. I wonder had everyone tried that? Thanks for your suggestion! [/quote]
What sensor are you using? The reason I ask is if you are using an Eye-One sensor the diffusor is not used at all anywhere in the process. If you are using a Spyder II I'd have to reread the guide to see if that uses a diffusor. Also, if you are using a Spyder I'd highly recommend upgrading to the Eye-One LT sensor if you want to stay in that price range.
Kal, thanks for updating the guide!
keep us informed richmond5
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richmond5
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: HCFR CRT Mode |
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What sensor are you using? The reason I ask is if you are using an Eye-One sensor the diffusor is not used at all anywhere in the process. If you are using a Spyder II I'd have to reread the guide to see if that uses a diffusor. Also, if you are using a Spyder I'd highly recommend upgrading to the Eye-One LT sensor if you want to stay in that price range.
Kal, thanks for updating the guide!
keep us informed richmond5[/quote]
I am using eye one. When using HCFR , if you go Measures> sensor> configure , click on 'Help', it instruct you to use diffuser for front projection CRT
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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It appears they are indicating if using the diffusor and facing it towards the projector that it can be used as a luxmeter vs. a colorimeter for grayscale measurement. I would follow the guide after calibration w/o the diffusor just find the optimum location with the same 100IRE window then go through the grayscale reading with the various steps. Hopefully some other FP guys will step in to get you on your way.
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ExCavTanker
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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richmond5,
I just read your latest post on AVS and see that you are using the diffusor. How well does the diffusor work at the 20-50 IRE levels when reading grayscale?
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