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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | ...the HT uses an awful lot of electricity - it's a luxury. We use it maybe once a fortnight. |
??!?!!?!?! ..?!! How much does electricity cost where you are? Around here, even running an entire shop full of 100+ 100 watt flourescent lights eight hours a day seven days a week doesn't run more than 1k/month!
Anyway, to the original poster - Don't worry about flicker with a CRT projector. 60hz with a CRT monitor is awful, but probably not noticeable at all with a front projector. The phosphor lifetime is much longer than on normal CRT monitors.
As far as floor vs. ceiling goes, I had a 1271 set up floor-mount in front of my couch for a while. I was aiming it at a 60" wide screen - super small for usual HT purposes, but I really liked it. Punchy even for a low end projector, and the screen size didn't bother me, even given that I usually love big screens (that is, big field of view).
If I were you, I'd leave a bunch of money in there for sound. It's at LEAST as important as the visuals, and a home theater in a box kit just don't cut it. Leave yourself a grand for sound, and with a little persistence and some Craigslist (you wouldn't believe how much awesome gear people are basically throwing out to replace with little poofy best buy crap, just because it's big) you can have a fantastic sound system. It adds a LOT.
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forin
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Cleveland
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Already have my audio portion budgeted and selected. I have decided on AV123 x-static speakers and emotiva pre and pro amps. To me, audio is more important than video but since I am looking for long term I figured I would spend cash in both areas.
Forin
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Mark_A_W wrote: | | ...the HT uses an awful lot of electricity - it's a luxury. We use it maybe once a fortnight. |
??!?!!?!?! ..?!! How much does electricity cost where you are? Around here, even running an entire shop full of 100+ 100 watt flourescent lights eight hours a day seven days a week doesn't run more than 1k/month! |
Mark's point is not about what it costs in dollars, but rather the fact that there is a "cost" associated with electricity (i.e. global warming, using diminishing resources, etc). Therefore, a responsible person will attempt to minimize their impact on the environment and others.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| forin wrote: | | Well the problem with floor mounting a projector is that the ceiling is only 6 feet 8 inches tall. On top of that I am 6 foot 4 inches and the landlord does not want anything bolted onto the walls or ceiling. At the moment floor mounted is my only option be it digital or crt. |
Well, the ceiling height is not an issue. You would be sitting under it, so unless you stand on your seat, you would be OK. The Landlord is another issue. But, to mount it will only take 4 lag bolts whose holes can easily be patched. If he lets you hang pictures, then I don't see the problem as the evidence left of the ceiling mount would be roughly the same.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | forin wrote: | | Well the problem with floor mounting a projector is that the ceiling is only 6 feet 8 inches tall. On top of that I am 6 foot 4 inches and the landlord does not want anything bolted onto the walls or ceiling. At the moment floor mounted is my only option be it digital or crt. |
Well, the ceiling height is not an issue. You would be sitting under it, so unless you stand on your seat, you would be OK. The Landlord is another issue. But, to mount it will only take 4 lag bolts whose holes can easily be patched. If he lets you hang pictures, then I don't see the problem as the evidence left of the ceiling mount would be roughly the same. |
Man, I hope Mark hasn't got a fridge... they use as much juice as a G90! Anyway...
Forin, there's one other option if you want to get funky: Do a vertical + mirror mount behind your couch. I considered this, but ended up going with ceiling mount because it effectively increases your screen size for a given distance from your seating, but it could work for what you need to do. Basically, you'd have the projector 'aimed at the ceiling' right behind the couch, and at an appropriate distance you'd have a mirror which would reflect the image onto the screen.
Advantages:
-Takes up not-so-much space, and none in front of the seating.
-You can get perfect geometry usage if you tilt the PJ a bit (ie, square image on tube = square image onscreen).
-Nothing hooked to the ceiling.
-Super easy to do PJ adjustments, swap tubes, adjust astig, etc; almost as easy as a floor mount.
-Makes the landlord happy.
-Great if you like a bigger field of view, and you can move the screen closer or further to adjust field of view vs. screen size. This gets a little weird, so do some drawings if it's not obvious at first!
Disadvantages:
-You have to build a mount for the PJ and the mirror.
-You want a very flat, first-surface mirror for best results. You'll lose a little bit of brightness.
-The mirror needs to be reasonably large - or the projector reasonably high off the floor. If you wanted the smallest possible mirrors, the projector would have to be set up with the lenses just taller than the tallest seated head height. Then, if someone with an afro comes over, you're hosed. 
-There's a shadow if somebody stands up. This will tend to happen regardless, though.
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm. He's 6'4", the ceiling is 6'8". He would only have 4" of room for a projector. If he had the chair below the pj he could stand in front of the chair and not bonk his head. When walking behind the chair he might have to be careful but it would work. All he needs to do is find the right location for the lags and he's good to go.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: |
Man, I hope Mark hasn't got a fridge... they use as much juice as a G90! Anyway... |
I hope this was supposed to be some sort of a joke, because if you meant it with a serious undertone, your logic is seriously flawed.
So, since you are going to drive anyway, a 10 MPG car is no worse than a 35 MPG car!!! 
As an aside, I respect Mark quite a bit on this. He is willing to withstand the derision of folks all in an attempt to make the world a better place for out kids. Quite commendable indeed.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | perisoft wrote: |
Man, I hope Mark hasn't got a fridge... they use as much juice as a G90! Anyway... |
I hope this was supposed to be some sort of a joke, because if you meant it with a serious undertone, your logic is seriously flawed.
So, since you are going to drive anyway, a 10 MPG car is no worse than a 35 MPG car!!!
As an aside, I respect Mark quite a bit on this. He is willing to withstand the derision of folks all in an attempt to make the world a better place for out kids. Quite commendable indeed. |
Mark yelled at me once because sometimes I would let my projector warm-up for up to an hour before watching. He suggested I redo my setup using less adjustment which in the long run is better anyway for the projector, environment and saves precious tube life. Now I only let it warm up for 15 minutes max, it’s not razor sharp by then, but decent.
Thanks Mark
Mike
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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If i'm going to do some adjustments or want to show off the picture I'll warm it up but if I'm just going to watch a short program I don't warm it up at all.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, why would warm up time have anything to do with the amount of adjustments? It seems just as likely you'd need to make greater adjustments when it's cold as it is that you'd need to make greater adjustments when it's warm. Warmup drift should just drift the various required settings from point A to point B over the course of the warmup, and it seems that it'd be a crapshoot whether adjusting for A was less tough on the PJ than adjusting for point B.
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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What I meant was if I'm going to do any adjustments I do them with it warmed up, the same temp as if I were going to watch a movie. When I'm watching a short, then I'm not going to warm it up an hour to watch it for 30 minutes.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Out of curiosity, why would warm up time have anything to do with the amount of adjustments? |
If the PJ has drift, then the closer the mechanical set up is, then the closer points "A" and "B" are. The closer they are, the less time it takes to drift in.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Good explanation Dave. I was trying to figure out how to explain this one. The harder you push the electronics from their 'natural' resting state, the harder and longer it takes for them to re-stabilize, and also the harder it is for the machine to 'hold' that state.
This is the way I see it: The electron beam paints across the phosphor surface of the tubes and has a natural path it wants to follow based on the deflection circuitry. Think of this beam as a taut string. When you use convergence or geometry controls you're pulling the string sideways somehow (different directions at different times) to try and get it to bend in an unnatural way. The more you use these controls the harder you're trying to bend it out of the path it wants to follow, so the more things will drift as the 'force' the electronics has to exert is harder and a slight error is magnified.
You should always try and minimize the use of electronic controls and do as much as you can with mechanical controls to let the electronics 'do their thing' the natural way. You have to understand and be at one with your electronics to achieve this. 
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | perisoft wrote: |
Man, I hope Mark hasn't got a fridge... they use as much juice as a G90! Anyway... |
I hope this was supposed to be some sort of a joke, because if you meant it with a serious undertone, your logic is seriously flawed.
So, since you are going to drive anyway, a 10 MPG car is no worse than a 35 MPG car!!!
As an aside, I respect Mark quite a bit on this. He is willing to withstand the derision of folks all in an attempt to make the world a better place for out kids. Quite commendable indeed. |
Thanks Dave
A fridge is not a luxury, the argument is flawed. Without fridges our society would not function. The same can't be said for HT's. Anyway, a fridge uses 1/4 the amount of power of a G90.
And it's not the dollar cost of the power that is the issue. It costs me about 50 cents to watch a movie.
Forin, I suggested an 8" ES focus CRT to cut your teeth. EM focus is much pricier (or harder to setup if you get a PG - there are MANY more adjustments).
And yes, I do like my PC!
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
You should always try and minimize the use of electronic controls and do as much as you can with mechanical controls to let the electronics 'do their thing' the natural way. You have to understand and be at one with your electronics to achieve this.
Kal |
I find that each time I set the projector up from scratch I use less and less electronic adjustments and often return some settings to zero or midpoint that were previously well off the mark. It just goes to show how important an exacting mechanical setup can be, not to mention saving you many headaches down the road. A little extra time and effort up front really pay off.
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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I found the sony 12xx models to be a good learning experience. The machine is well built, well documented and parts and advice are easy to find. They can be found for a very low price, I paid $150. for the 1272 and traded some old computer parts for the 1271.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | kal wrote: |
You should always try and minimize the use of electronic controls and do as much as you can with mechanical controls to let the electronics 'do their thing' the natural way. You have to understand and be at one with your electronics to achieve this.
Kal |
I find that each time I set the projector up from scratch I use less and less electronic adjustments and often return some settings to zero or midpoint that were previously well off the mark. It just goes to show how important an exacting mechanical setup can be, not to mention saving you many headaches down the road. A little extra time and effort up front really pay off. |
Yep. I do have to push Keystone harder then I like. Why is that?
Mike
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jkruger
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 2435
Location: Carlsbad, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Mounting the pj closer to perpendicular (level) to the screen will reduce keystone.
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forin
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Cleveland
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Even though the mirror suggestions sounds really f-ing cool, I just don't think I have the ability for that elaborate of a setup. I figured I could place the PJ on a dolly, move it around until it is centered, lock the wheels, throw a table over it and snug some chairs up to it. Since I intend for this room to serve double duty as a bedroom, my bed would be located on the far wall facing the screen. As long as the picture quality is not affected by a floor mount I should be happy with it.
Forin
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