CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

Kal wrote:
> I do have a link Tim. In the closing comments section I say: <

Geez, how could I have missed that? Smile

I would suggest that at any point (e.g., the very end) where you say that comments would be appreciated, you include a link to where you'd like them to be made.

**kal** · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject:

dochlywd · Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:

Kal,

Maybe I have missed this, but ................

I have a G90 calibrated by Ken W. I later purchased a XA2 and haven't really used it since it needs to be calibrated and Ken hasn't had any trips through town lately. I would love to try to do this. Is there ANY risk at my attempt in doing so, would mess up the other sources already calibrated by Ken? How do I make sure that it ONLY affects the source I am calibrating? Sorry if this is a repeat or stupid question, but I've never done this before and don't want to jack up any of the "great-one"s work.

Thanks!
Doc

**kal** · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:25 am Post subject:

Plasmid · Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 4

Alright, so I was too tired last night to post anything (let alone get the necessary screen caps for showing my results). But here's how things went:

First, I unfortunately don't have an before/aftercomparison pics to show yet. I used Spider-Man 3 on blu-ray to take some before pics, but returned the PS3 to my brother before I took any after pics. If I hopefully get around to taking the after pics, I'll definitely post them.

Anyway. I set everything up and took a reading Here are my BEFORE results:

50" Samsung PS-50Q97HDX (also known as Q91, HP-T5064, and other model names depending on your region). According to an online review, setting the plasma to Movie Mode with Warm2 at default settings is very close to 6500k. I was very happy when the first result proved that wrong.

Grayscale:

This actually excited me. It meant I had some work to do.

Luminance:

Gamma:

RGB Levels:

CIE Diagram:

As you can see, all settings were far from optimal. Before calibrating the grayscale, I decided to test something. These cNet settings are supposed to be pretty good. It varies from room to room, of course, but I decided to use it as a springboard.

When I saw the results, I was quite discouraged. They were pretty guide, and a great deal better than the default settings. I felt as if I had wasted my time and money. All I needed were these settings. I wasn't even sure how much better I could get the set to look.

Despite this, though, I went on to calibrate my TV. And the results were (surprisingly) significantly better. Here they are with the cNet settings for comparison:

GRAYSCALE:

cNet:

After:

LUMINANCE:

cNet:

After:

GAMMA:

cNet:

After:

RGB LEVELS:

cNet:

After:

CIE DIAGRAM:

cNet:

After:

Obviously, quite an improvement. I was taken aback by how close the gamma value was to 2.2. But I'm still unhappy with the deltaE values at 10 and 20 IRE, and I'll most likely play around with them in the future. Overall, though, I'm VERY satisfied.

After that, I decided to see if I can't improve the primaries and secondaries. I didn't save the "before" file, but I'm pretty sure the end results were markedly improved. Here's what I ended up with:

I definitely plan on messing around with them some more, since by the time I got to them it was pretty late and I calibrated them halfheartedly.

In closing, I'd like to thank kal again for this truly informative and extremely helpful guide. I never bothered looking at this kind of stuff before (and almost didn't), but I've learned so much.

**kal** · Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject:

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Yeah right, and DVD manufacturers will notice how much we pay attention to PQ and audio quality, and devote lots more bits to the picture and audio tracks instead of using 40% of the disk for whogivesashit "extras" .... NOT!! Smile

Plasmid · Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 4

Scott_R_K · Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Rockwood , Ontario

So glad I found this forum and Topic . Very well done .

Question , of course , in your examples you show , on your RGB Curves diagram , a Blue "hump" . You go on to explain how to remove if you have a CRT system . I have an LCD Projector that has a Red "hump" almost identical to your Blue example.Do you have any suggestion on how I might correct this ?

Thanks ,

Scott......................

**kal** · Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:

Thanks Scott!

Is it only on red? It may be the the red output is running out of steam before the others and dropping off early creating this 'hump'. It's a tip I've been meaning to add but haven't had the time: I need to talk a bit about making sure that none of the 3 colour outputs are hitting a brick wall such that 90 and 100 IRE have the same output. For now to get you started see here for some tips: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13967305#post13967305

Kal

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Kal, why would the red "run out of steam" in an **LCD** projector? All 3 colors are using the same bulb. 100% output should be reliable when the LCD panel is "wide open." The red shouldn't top out unless there's something nonlinear in the "how much light to transmit" algorithm that controls the LCD panel -- and I wouldn't expect that to be different between the different colors.

**kal** · Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:56 am Post subject:

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

I was referring to Scott_R_K's post above -- he has an LCD with a red hump. I still don't see why either a DLP or LCD would behave in a nonlinear fashion like this, unless something was fundamentally wrong with the projector's control circuitry.

Scott_R_K · Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Rockwood , Ontario

**kal** · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:33 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info Scott!

Kal

P.S. The posters putting images in line with their text are hosting the images elsewhere (like photobucket or whatever) and then linking to it like this: [img] http://www....... [/img]

You can also attach it directly to the thread by uploading it.

Scott_R_K · Joined: 30 May 2008 Posts: 17 Location: Rockwood , Ontario

OK , let's see if an attachment will work . The graph looks worse than I remember but that's probably because I autoscaled it this time . You'll at least see what I'm talking about . It's odd . The Green and Blue track each other but the Red is almost an inverted profile of the other two .

Thanks for the interest .

Scott..........

delphiplasma · Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 14

Hi All,

Just set up my plasma, using the latest chapter in 'colour calibration'.

The before measurement showed an over wide colour gamut. I managed to reduce this to normal by reducing the colour control. But now I'm a little worried, as with the 'blue mode setting' the colour control was set at '0', but I've had to reduce it to -40! Is the 'Blue mode' calibration that inaccurate? The PQ looks more natural with the measurement calibration, but every now and again, with certain program material, the skin tones can look a bit grey.

Also, my Green primary is a little oversaturated, but the yellow secondary is spot on? How can that be? I would assume if I corrected the Green primary then the yellow would tend towards red?

Thanks for any help in advance

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject:

EManT2200 · Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Maryland

Hi Kal, I own a 52" Panasonic PT-52LCX35, LCD projection television. I bought it 6 weeks ago from Wal-Mart, where I work. It sat in the warehouse, new in the box, for 2 years. I found out it had been marked down to $899.00, it sold for $2099.00 when new ! ! ! I would like to purchase an Eye-One DisplayLT and use your guide for dummies(actually I do have alittle knowledge about about such things) to perform the greyscale adjustments. Problem is, the only RGB level controls that I can find in the menu are for the computer input, which, I believe will have no affect on the other inputs. I know how to get into the SERVICE MENU, but, they use what have been referred to as HEX numbers, don't know why. I don't know which ones to use for RGB high end and low end. I thought about calling Panasonic and asking, but, I am afraid they might tell me that, me, going into the service menu will void my warranty. Any suggestions ? I would appreiciate any help at all, you certainly don't want to be guessing while in the service menu ! ! ! Rolling Eyes

delphiplasma · Joined: 06 May 2008 Posts: 14

Yes, I must send the calibration files to view.

Although, last night I took a look at the Delta E values and they were worse, with the exception of 'yellow, than the before readings?

I had basically adjusted the saturation control until the CIE chart matched the PAL reference chart.

I have Delta E values of something like 3 for Yellow, 19 for Red and 12 for green, which makes no sense, as green is off by quite a bit and red seems spot on?

Now if I increase the saturation control, the Delta values improve, but the CIE triangle grows wider.

Question is, does the delta E value look more at the accuracy , rather than the saturation, of the colours?

Or, does it seem there is some form of error in the readings taken, caused by software/hardware faults??

I'm measuring a Plasma with Eye one, HCFR and the HCFR test patterns.

Excellent guide, Kal!!

Thanks