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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Blu-ray Player Guru's take pitty on the HD DVD guy and help |
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OK, although I'm not happy that BD won (wow, shocker), and have seriously considered getting an HTPC because I'm not sure that it is unethical to actually steal from an unethical company like Sony, I'm going to do the "right" thing and get a BD player. 
I have no need or desire to update my AVR and after hearing the differences between high resolution audio and downconverted audio to DTS max rate, I need high resolution audio.
So, the PS3 is out of the running because that would cost me $1500-2000 dollars (PS3 + new AVR) which is not in the short term budget.
Even though the HD DVD player will remain for awhile (to play a small handful of discs), I am willing to relegate it to S/PDIF output to give the BD player the analog inputs (since it is likely that within a few months I will be playing more BD discs than HD DVD discs, although it seems like it will be quite sometime before there is significant BD disc availability).
So, I need a decent player with at least 5.1 analog and preferably 7.1 analog output.
I thought about a combo player and just replacing the HD DVD player, but from all my research, it looks like every combo player is either a POS or does not have the necessary audio decoding on board to output through the analog outs. Is this correct?
If so, then I'm looking a a dedicated BD player.
Now, it seems that since BD implementation STILL is not complete, my research seems to suggest that there is a good chance that any player bought today will be in the trashcan in a year or so. So, I'd like to not spend too much money.
It also appears from my research that a "problem BD player" is an oxymoron. So, it appears you have to shoot for one with the least problems and a constant stream of firmware updates.
<rantBreak>OK, I'm a "home theater guy" and I'm struggling to figure out which BD player to buy--how is Joe Sixpack supposed to do this?!?!? And BD won how??????  </rantBreak>
So, it seems I've got four options:
1) used Sammy 1000 for $200 or less and live with the problems for now
2) used Sammy 1200 for $250 or less and live with the problems for now
3) new Sammy 1400 for $300 and (given Sammy's track record) likely live with problems
4) used Panny DMP-BD30K for >$400 (which is more than I wanted to spend on a throw away device, but seems to be the most problem free).
So, the big question--do I have this correct?
Is the Panny worth the extra money given that it may well be a throw away?
Thanks.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 1173
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't buy any of the sammy's (I know someone with the craptasic 1000 and have read too many bad things about them at this point.)
I would say the panny is worth the extra cash. What about the Sony 300?
Refurbed here for like $276 from Sony directly...
http://www.gosale.com/4932025/sony-bdp-s300-1080p-blu-ray?gclid=CIGC-PGj9JICFQgKGgodGRlU3w
-Brian
Last edited by Brian Hampton on Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Dave, I think "throw-away" device might be getting a little carried away. Just because none of the players are or will be updated to new spec, doesn't mean they'll need to be trashed. In fact, some people don't care one bit about the new features in the new spec.
Look at it this way: If you buy the used Panny for about $400, then you can sell it used for say $300 this fall or $200-250 next spring. Since it doesn't sound like BD player pricing is going to drop much in the near future, the value on the current players should stay reasonable. So, given that, just think of it as spending $100-200 to be able to watch BD for the next 6 months or a year. Not that big of a deal considering what certainly must have spent on a lot of other gear in your HT.
SC
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Hampton wrote: | | What about the Sony 300? |
I didn't think it would decode the lossless audio codecs. Will it? If so, then yeah, $276 is not bad at all.
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Dave
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Brian Hampton
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Dave, I think "throw-away" device might be getting a little carried away. Just because none of the players are or will be updated to new spec, doesn't mean they'll need to be trashed. In fact, some people don't care one bit about the new features in the new spec. |
True, but I think if they can't be updated to 2.0, their values will fall considerably even if new player prices remain consistent.
True, I will probably lose $200 on the Panny vs. $100 on a Sammy to get a much better player.
So, do you know if in the under $500 range, the panny is the best?
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Dave
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like it's missing some of the audio codecs.
-Brian
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Brian Hampton
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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You are correct. I was wrong. The Panny cannot do it.
There was a link to a ".info" site that listed all the players and their features in a plain HTML table. Does anyone know that site's URI?
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Dave
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | True, but I think if they can't be updated to 2.0, their values will fall considerably even if new player prices remain consistent.
<snip>
So, do you know if in the under $500 range, the panny is the best? |
No frickin' clue what the best STB BD player is... I haven't followed it at all. I got the PS3 last winter because I liked the price and all the other functionality. Of course, now I'm wishing I had high-res audio. I wasn't happy with the analog 5.1 thing with my HD DVD player, so the STB probably wouldn't have been satisfying, either. Predictably, now I'm shopping for a new receiver... This %^&%$ damn hobby...
I don't know if the 2.0 thing is going to have as much impact as you think. People either don't even know what it's going to do for them or they just aren't that excited about it. It's going to take some time for A) developers and studios to do something with it and B) end-users to learn what - if anything - it will do to make their movie-watching or entertainment experience any better. Look how little the internet connectivity was used on HD DVD, and those players had that connectivity from day 1.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/mind-blowing-blu-ray-bd-live
I've seen hundreds of comments in forums from people who say, "Hey, as long as it plays movies, I don't really care whether it has an internet connection and can download stuff." Seriously, nobody cares right now. That's not to say that down the road if the developers come up with a killer app for the internet connection, that people won't get excited about it, but it'll be awhile, and I have doubts.
SC
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ecrabb
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks! Not the one I was thinking about but the same info. The one I was thinking about lets you filter by the options.
If this is correct, I'm screwed! I have to wait for the Panasonic DMP-BD50 (which will also be profile 2.0) and it won't be cheap! 
Looks like I either don't get lossless audio or have to wait for a player that does this to be release. This sucks!
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Dave
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kal
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Wait a second. In one thread you are bashing your peers that are pro Blu-ray for not being smarter and in this one you are seeking their advice/help? Sorry, my best advice is to take your advice and buy another HD DVD player and the money you save can buy you some cake to eat.   
PS: I do not wish to have others think I am unkind (LOL) so my advice is to buy a PS3. I own a Samsung BD-P1400 (and a PS3) and the Sammy's ability to play regular DVD has ceased to stop working (still plays Blu-ray disks). In fact, I am returning the Sammy today and buying another PS3.
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Brian Hampton
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Dave,
I've been looking at HDMI Audio AVR's and have found nice Denon's Refurbed for $300 to $500.
So,... I don't see why you need to do both upgrades at once. If I were you I would get the PS3 and then get into HDMI Audio when you get upgrade hungry again.
I've had my PS3 since Nov 06 and it's still the king of Blu Ray playback even if you ignore all the other features and abilities.
(I've always controlled mine with my Harmony remote by the way.)
Anyway,... Looking into some of these stand alone players for you only made me realize even more that the PS3 is the best value. Just because the SA players have the analog outputs doesn't mean they output the HD Audio formats. Plus if your banking out the analog outputs you have to go hear them as I bet they all sound different and I bet none of them compares to the DAC's and Amps in a mid-range AVR.
-Brian
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Wait a second. In one thread you are bashing your peers that are pro Blu-ray for not being smarter and in this one you are seeking their advice/help? |
Yeah, I'm a weird bastard aren't I?
The format war is over so I have to get a BD player. I did my best as a consumer to do what was right for all us consumers but it didn't pan out. So now I'm adopting.
The other thread was posted out of frustration of trying to find a BD player. I got so frustrated because my FIRST GENERATION HD DVD player was cheaper and more functional than the SECOND GENERATION of the winning format. How can that not be frustrating?
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Hampton wrote: | Dave,
I've been looking at HDMI Audio AVR's and have found nice Denon's Refurbed for $300 to $500.
So,... I don't see why you need to do both upgrades at once. If I were you I would get the PS3 and then get into HDMI Audio when you get upgrade hungry again.
I've had my PS3 since Nov 06 and it's still the king of Blu Ray playback even if you ignore all the other features and abilities.
(I've always controlled mine with my Harmony remote by the way.)
Anyway,... Looking into some of these stand alone players for you only made me realize even more that the PS3 is the best value. Just because the SA players have the analog outputs doesn't mean they output the HD Audio formats. Plus if your banking out the analog outputs you have to go hear them as I bet they all sound different and I bet none of them compares to the DAC's and Amps in a mid-range AVR.
-Brian |
Hmmm. Interesting points.
About the DACs, I was basing this upon my experience with the DACs in the Toshiba HD-A1 which were very good and lossless audio sounded great. I was assuming similar DACs in the BD SA players. Maybe not.
And I am finding that they have analog outputs but they are useless--they don't do the lossless audio! That is insane!
I've not had good luck in my life with refurbed, so they scare me. I was also thinking of replacing the AVR with and HDMI AVR of the same quality, which will cost over $1000, but maybe I should consider downgrading the AVR with the thought of eventually powering the 3 front channels with external amps.
Good food for thought, thanks!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Dave take a look at the LG combo players, I have an LG BH100 and love it if you dont mind not having the HD DVD interactive crap.
look on ebay for deals.
Athanasios |
I thought they were problematic? Also, they do do TrueHD but not DTS-MA. I've not looked at all the BD software that deep yet, but is that a concern? In other words, are there DTS-MA discs that don't have TrueHD also?
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Dave
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kal
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Hampton wrote: | | Plus if your banking out the analog outputs you have to go hear them as I bet they all sound different and I bet none of them compares to the DAC's and Amps in a mid-range AVR. |
With more and more AVRs coming out these days with HDMI support (for MPCM and bitstream lossless) you can bet that the number of BD players with 5/1 or 7.1 analog outs will also dimish and/or the quality of the analog circuitry will dimish. There will be no point in supplying the analog output feature. Soon the only reason to offer it will be to have an extra "feature" on the spec sheet to outsell the competition but you can bet that they won't be good quality DACs for sure.
Just like component output and standard audio L/R output is starting to diminish in quality too: Less and less people are using them but they HAVE to put them on the boxes so they do so with the absolute cheapest parts possible.
Kal
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