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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: |
Two high end 9"LC projectors, a giant screen, a blendzilla and various support equipment. If that ain't the ultimate video geek peni$ pump then I don't know what is  |
I would agree, 9" LC are probably not needed with a blend and are somewhat of an overkill, unless you want blinding light output or a really huge screen. The bandwidth for a blend is just not that demanding the way I see it. Also keep in mind I think a unity gain screen should be used to keep the blend zone invisible.
Mike
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Aww, chips just mad cause he has an ampro 
just kidding chip ! 
Athanasios |
Mad??? I couldn't be happier that I have a AmPro Oooops sorry, two Ooops really sorry, three for less than the price of one G-90 and never will they shoot at the same screen at the same time.
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | Aww, chips just mad cause he has an ampro
just kidding chip !
Athanasios |
Mad??? I couldn't be happier that I have a AmPro Oooops sorry, two Ooops really sorry, three for less than the price of one G-90 and never will they shoot at the same screen at the same time. |
Poor Ampro, the Rodney Dangerfield of projectors. 
Mike
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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I just got my second bg808s soon to be a cine8 onyx clone. I think doing a blend is the ultimate thing with a crt, maybe I'm nutts crazy wired  , but that is what I plan on doing no matter how much others will in not so many words say that it is stupid, or I have small penns, and need to compensate for it. (By the way I have three kids, two of which are twins, I can get things done with two shots, it didn't take me three !!!  )
Adam
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | I just got my second bg808s soon to be a cine8 onyx clone. I think doing a blend is the ultimate thing with a crt, maybe I'm nutts crazy wired , but that is what I plan on doing no matter how much others will in not so many words say that it is stupid, or I have small penns, and need to compensate for it. (By the way I have three kids, two of which are twins, I can get things done with two shots, it didn't take me three !!! )
Adam |
Great Adam...Good to hear!
Mike
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: | | I just got my second bg808s soon to be a cine8 onyx clone. |
How are you going to do this? In other words, were are you getting all the parts.
The Cine 8 Onyx (Zenith Pro 1200X) is more than just an 808s with P16 LC. The port 5/switcher board is better allow with some other bits of goodness. I'd think you could buy the real machine for what it would take to truly get an 808s up to its performance.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | bbfarmht wrote: | | I just got my second bg808s soon to be a cine8 onyx clone. |
How are you going to do this? In other words, were are you getting all the parts.
The Cine 8 Onyx (Zenith Pro 1200X) is more than just an 808s with P16 LC. The port 5/switcher board is better allow with some other bits of goodness. I'd think you could buy the real machine for what it would take to truly get an 808s up to its performance. |
Dave,
I think Adam was talking optically being a cine8 onyx clone maybe?
One thing with a blend you do have to take a slightly different mindset. Bandwidth is no longer the enemy like it is trying to push our 8" sets to the limit. For a CIH blend setup only takes 1080x817p. Pixel clocks even at 96Hz should be in the 110-120 MHz range. More of an issue will be scan lines.
For fun I setup a custom resolution on my XG at the above scan rate. Scan line were very noticeable at even 5 feet from the screen, but that would have been for about a 15’ wide screen. For a blend obviously the projectors in a real live setup would be much closer to the screen to create a 12’ blend giving the image incredible punch.
Mike
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | How are you going to do this? In other words, were are you getting all the parts.
The Cine 8 Onyx (Zenith Pro 1200X) is more than just an 808s with P16 LC. The port 5/switcher board is better allow with some other bits of goodness. I'd think you could buy the real machine for what it would take to truly get an 808s up to its performance. |
Yes I have p16's for one unit so far, as for the cards I am going to go with mp mods which should be slightly better than the onyx!  At least thats my opinion Next will be either getting the tvone 7200  Of course thats the unit that everybody else likes just a bit expensive though seeing that what I will have in 2 8" crts I will spend on the blending unit, hmmmm blendzilla is looking better and better the more i think about it. But at least I'm not using an ampro. I almost forgot to add that I have bought both units for less than $400. Now much I spent on the tubes well not sure whether I did as good on that purchase. 
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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For what its worth two C2-2250's will do the same as the C2-7200 and they have remote control capabilities compared to the 7000 series, which would be great for changing inputs at least i dont think the remote is really for set up use. I am Undecided with which units to use, also the 2000 series doesnt have any fans so nice and quite the 7000 fans are very high pitched ans If i got that unit i'd have to do a fan mod for sure.
Athanasios
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | For what its worth two C2-2250's will do the same as the C2-7200 and they have remote control capabilities compared to the 7000 series, which would be great for changing inputs at least i dont think the remote is really for set up use. I am Undecided with which units to use, also the 2000 series doesnt have any fans so nice and quite the 7000 fans are very high pitched ans If i got that unit i'd have to do a fan mod for sure.
Athanasios |
I can just see the thread now: "Hushbox for 7000 series blending unit."
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:08 am Post subject: |
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How bad would it be to 'not' blend?
Just mount them side by side.
It might be impossible to get the colors right though.
Meaning a 'line' will be visible.
Might be close enough with a scaler though.
Or a HTPC if you want to digitally correct it.
It should be easy to do a blend with a dual head gfx card, Any links?
Has any one set up higher res then 1080p?
like 3840*1635 (or what it might be in CIH)
A tri blend would be nice. To take advantage of the crazy res a CRT can produce.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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David,
Nobody really has much call to go beyond 1080p because there's no source (other than real-time computer software like games, which most HT'ers aren't interested in). Nothing more than a two-projector blend is really necessary because the phosphor utilization is really good with two projectors for scope material. I you went to three projectors, you'd have either gigantic blends, or like a 3:1 aspect ratio that you couldn't really utilize.
Back in about 2001, I helped set up and install a 2-projector edge-blended RP setup with two rear-projected BR909's. They were each running 1600x1200 with a couple-hundred pixel blend region rear-projected on a 8'x20' curved screen. An SGI Onyx RE2 was doing the blending. It was VERY cool, but about a half-million dollar setup back then, IIRC.
A PC-based blender with a dual head card is theoretically possible. Some guys were screwing around a year or two ago with Nvidia software and QuadroFX cards, but never got it to really work right and couldn't get support for it from Nvidia. Others have used VLC with some success, but you're limited to only what will play in VLC, then.
Even with an OS API-type solution, you're still limited to displaying only what you can get into the computer, which makes it expensive, difficult or impossible to use external sources like STB's, game consoles, and HD cable or satellite boxes - which limits your return on investment - either time or money.
Yet another person over at AVS was looking into or had hired a coder from Rent-a-coder to write a DirectX extension so anything on the computer would display in the blended channels, but I don't ever remember what happened to that project. I remember him saying that because of the small numbers, it would probably cost $200-300 for the software and people balking at that given the unknown and potentially inflexible utility.
All the issues I've mentioned are why the (relatively) inexpensive option of the TVone blending boxes make a lot of sense if you want to try blend. In short, who wants to go the effort of acquiring two machines, installing two machines, setting up two machines, hushboxing two machines, and maintaining two machines only to connect it to a pain-in-the-ass HTPC that will only play what's on the HTPC - all to save a couple thousand bucks (the price of the blending boxes LESS the cost of all the HTPC hardware (assuming you weren't planning on running an HTPC).
SC
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Ridebreck
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 943
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| overclkr wrote: | Oh, big dog, remember this??????
Cliffy |
I do believe that if I encountered that monster anywhere near my house there would be a few less 12 gauge shells in my closet.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bbfarmht wrote: |
Yes I have p16's for one unit so far, as for the cards I am going to go with mp mods which should be slightly better than the onyx! At least thats my opinion |
Not an assumption I'd be willing to make. Also, you won't get some of the other features even if this brings the port 5/switcher up to snuff. So, not REALLY a clone.
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A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: |
Personally, I think as the price falls on nice 8" machines, so will the price be falling on digitals. Imagine in two years if there's an RS2-quality machine for $2000. |
I'm not sure that is going to happen. Digital tech is rapidly reaching maturity. About the only advances I can see in 1080p past the RS2 are: better panel alignment, better contrast ratio, less motion blur. But all these will be very incremental. Not like the jumps that have occurred in the last several years.
Consider this, all through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, "the best TV" you could buy remained about the same price (adjusted for inflation). They got a little bit better, got bigger, and got more features (sleep times, PIP, etc). But the price had settled in. I think the digital world is approaching that. I don't think we'll see RS2 quality at <$3000. My guess is that $3500-4500 is where it will settle in. Bad looking LCDs will probably occupy the $1500 spot with 1080p projection not being much cheaper than that.
So, I think a great CIH set up with a digital is going to cost you over $6000 even in 3 years. A workable one good enough for most people will be under $2500--but it won't be CRT or RS2 quality.
But I'll give you this, even if my price predictions are true, it means a G90 will be going for $1500-2000 in 2-3 years. |
I think Alan and some others have mentioned the coming incremental improvement in digitals over at AVS. I have heard it said that DLP is almost maxed out on the chip side. LCOS could have some improvements left in it (resolution not withstanding and I don't consider that to important). LCD may have more room for improvement, but that would just place it on par with LCOS. The advantage in that would be potentially LCOS quality for LCD prices. I think what most are anticipating is the improvement in light sources. LED and Laser could provide a good bump in performance, but when will they arrive? The biggest help to digital IMO is the improvement in processing. This looks to be the biggest weakness for digitals at least in my opinion.
After saying that, I still believe that a blend is a good option for those wanting to do CIH. In my poll on AVS, people were about split between buying a 9" CRT and blending 8" CRTs. I think if you are going to the trouble for CIH (which usually means a dedicated room), then you might as well put in the extra work for a blend and the increased performance you receive with one.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Spanky Ham wrote: | | LCD may have more room for improvement, but that would just place it on par with LCOS. The advantage in that would be potentially LCOS quality for LCD prices. |
I do not share your optimism. LCD is the oldest of the digital tech. It has had the most time for improvements to be applied and it is still the worst technology. Given the physical limitations of it, I only see improvements on the light source front.
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A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | Spanky Ham wrote: | | LCD may have more room for improvement, but that would just place it on par with LCOS. The advantage in that would be potentially LCOS quality for LCD prices. |
I do not share your optimism. LCD is the oldest of the digital tech. It has had the most time for improvements to be applied and it is still the worst technology. Given the physical limitations of it, I only see improvements on the light source front. |
That is why I said "may". I don't think LCD will progress to much more, but I haven't heard as much about LCD reaching its limit as I have for DLP and LCOS. Of course, I don't pay that much attention to LCD, because I find it nothing more than a cheap solution. I have seen some 1080p DLPs on the used market for less than $1k. I would go this route before buying a new LCD unless it has a really good VP that might make it look good. See how I give myself some wiggle room.
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