CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

dc_pilgrim · Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 225 Location: PA

I guess that is my speculation - if people with nice older receivers (w/o HDMI) that have inputs that could accept analog outputs from a PS3 had them, could they not run the audio through a cheap HDMI receiver with pre-outs, and then feed it to their nicer, vintage unit, rather than waiting for a breakout box to come to market.

At the end of the day, those folks should just get the Panny 50 and call it a day.

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Or would people with older receivers (w/o HDMI *but* WITH S/PDIF) be better off to just use their TOSlink connection? I dunno if lossless audio through a cheap HDMI receiver is going to be any better than a TOSlink signal.

(Panny 50?)

Brian Hampton · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 1173

Hey,

I suppose people with nice older AVR's have 2 choices.

They can get a stand alone and use the PS3 for in another part of the home or sell it to pay for the stand alone.

Or,.. They could upgrade to HDMI Audio.

I think the comment about the panny 50 was in reference to this....

http://www.blu-ray.com/players/players.php?id=17

Maybe I could pick up one of those on down the line and the move the PS3 out of the theater.... That's a possibility.

-Brian

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4899 Location: Flower Mound, TX

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Well, you don't have to pay $500 for a PS3. There are plenty of places selling them for $350 with a Spiderman3 DVD.

For those of us with limited budgets and less-than-golden-ear HT systems without HDMI-capable AVRs, S/PDIF audio is a non-ideal but definitely workable solution. It won't sound as good as a standalone player going into the 7.1 audio inputs (though will my limited system honestly show the difference?), but it costs about half as much. The PS3 also has other nice features, such as playing media files, which I currently use a LOT with my Momitsu DVD player. It would be a perfect solution if I had a good HDMI-capable receiver, but even without that, it's a very good answer.

overclkr · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4227

greg_mitch · Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 5320

Gino · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject:

overclkr · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 4227

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

A cheaper receiver that does lossless would give better sound than a better receiver that doesn't.....The lossless is simply better and provides a much more immersive soundfield.

But, it's up to the individual....chances are if you're running a crt, your noise floor is already high and then the better audio may not be as apparent.

cliffnseattle · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 23

An option I was considering for a while was an HDMI 1.1 capable pre/pro (5.1 or 7.1) connected to a PS3. This would give full MPCM capabilities, so the lossless HD audio is available (the lossless audio decoding is performed by the PS3 and sent to the audio processor). I was considering buying a Denon Pro DN-A7100 (pre-processor), since I have bi-amped speakers (actually Mackie studio monitors) and the A7100 has balanced (XLR connector) outputs. And the A7100 is available for a reasonable price, compared to other audio pre/pros with balanced outputs.

There's probably some nicely priced AVRs that are HDMI 1.1 capable for those that don't want separate audio amping, specially as the current generation of AVRs (HDMI 1.3, lots of video processing) continue displacing the previous generation. This would be the route I would go if I had non-amped speakers and didn't want separates and didn't want the latest and greatest in AVRs.

I wouldn't be surprised if designing and manufacturing a special purpose box with 7.1 MPCM (over HDMI 1.1) input and 7.1 analog outputs ends up with a retail price that's the same as the lower end AVRs. And that's not considering all of the "extras" that an AVR might provide - equalization, HDMI switching (or video processing in the more expensive models), surround modes, zones, non-HT audio (HD radio, sat radio, internet radio, etc). Of course the extras might not be important in a HT room.

Some claim the decoding done by a pre/pro/AVR will be better than decoding done by a BD player (including the PS3). This is likely a neverending debate, and probably depends heavily on the design and quality of the hardware in question. The only specific functionality that a BD player can provide that a pre/pro/VAR can't is realtime mixing of soundtrack with non-soundtrack audio (and other future similar capabilities).

I do believe that most D/A conversion done by receivers will be better than D/A conversion done by a BD player, for those considering BD players with 7.1 analog output. If nothing else, just having the extra D/A horsepower provided by most receiver DACs is probably an advantage. But just like the audio decoding, this generalization may not hold true for specific designs / models (i.e. a high-end or high quality BD player might be able to outperform a low-end receiver wrt to D/A conversion). 7.1 (or 5.1) analog output won't be available on PS3s, as already mentioned in this thread.

---

I consider the audio to actually be more important than the video, for HT - about a 60/40 or 65/35 ratio. About 9 years ago, when I was just starting to spec out my first HT, I went to a friend's house, just building up his first HT. He had already thoroughly researched and bought his audio, and had it set up (including configuring it with a sound meter) upstairs with his old 27" CRT TV. We watched a DVD on it, and his system had the best movie audio (in someone's home) that I had ever heard (at that time). We then went downstairs where he had his front projector (CRT) set up displaying on a large (90+ inch) screen, and an old, cheap audio system (2 channel, probably).

The 27" TV with excellent audio was significantly superior to a large screen with excellent picture and crappy audio.

Long story short, whenever someone asks me about HT, I recommend spending as much, or more, on the audio than on the video side. This might even mean buying a less desirable projector at first (and buying a better projector down the road, specially as digitals get better and cheaper, and excellent used CRT projectors continue to be available).

Cliff

**kal** · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:13 am Post subject:

I have to agree... I have a lot more invested in the sound side than the video side. Which is why I'm looking forward to getting lossless in the house some time reasonable soon. I'm waiting for the right thing however.

Kal

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

all you need is an HDMI 1.1 repeating pre-pro or avr. THere are many attractively priced units out there.

Kal, I assume you've looked at this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940065

Personally I'm going to go with a THX certified receiver this time...it may be bunk, but I've read up a lot on the process and I'm very keen to see if it will make a dif. THat is to say, the THX crossovers etc and how they mate with proper THX speakers and subs which also have proper THX crossover. The re-eq feature and the fact that I absolutely never listen to music makes me want to make my HT as good as it can possibly be for HT with no care about music.

Ben

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:10 am Post subject:

It'd be nice if we had yet another black box with HDMI in and 7.1 analog out, with a pass through for the video. I'd buy one.

benareeno · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada

Analog,

What receiver do you have now?

Something as cheap as a used $300 Yamaha has burr brown dac's on all 7.1 channels....I mean, that's not very expensive. And if you can sell what you have...it makes it even easier.

Most would be happy with a Marantz 4200 which does LPCM over hdmi as well...and can be found cheap!

The othe issue with a black box would be bass management...so I doubt we'll see such a black box anytime soon. At least not one that is practical.

Ben

**kal** · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject:

**kal** · Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject:

jamsys · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 152

Gefen does have a new HDMI to Analog breakout box for $400.00... Anyone play with it yet?

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: