CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

martinamv · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Germany

Hey there,

i do now have a BR 909 Smile

and i want it to be a whispering giant.

This is a very good machine indeed, but it is just a BIT to loud. Did anybody
exchange those fans (all 5 would be best)? There are 2 in front 80mm and
3 in the back (120mm). I tried to exchange them, but all i get is this not
funny message 'Fan Failed! Projector will switch off'. And, what do think...
Yes, it switches off Sad

Did anybody had success? What types off fans did you use?

I tried SilenX (2 80mm in front and 2 120mm/25mm back right/left
and 1 120mm/38mm back middle): No success!

Maybe, its because i use 2 different types for the back fans?

Thanx in advance for any help!

Martin

kschmit2 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject:

listen to what BerndS suggested.

He _really_ knows what he is doing.

Btw, SilenX fans are crap. Did you measure the actual volume of air they move?

Stick with industrial grade fans like Papst if anything.

Better yet: leave everything alone (with maybe some of the modifications BerndS suggested) and build a proper hushbox.

Kai

**kal** · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject:

Another vote for NOT using SilenX fans. While some people have had success, I really question how much you're frying your projector with them. I did extensive temperature measurements with them and they do NOT move the volume of air that they say they do.

My results after replacing all of my NMB fans with SilenX fans with supposedly similar specs:

r.bauer · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 280 Location: The Netherlands

The Cine9, which is a LOT more quiet compared to the 909, has a metal plate behind the three fans in the rear to block direct sound from the fans. A small gap is left so the air can still exit the projector through the mesh, but there is more.

Also the fan control is different between a 909 and a Cine9 where the 909 has far more aggressive fan control. The 909 is built for endurance in harsh environments and the Cine9 is designed to be almost inaudible. I don't think you can turn a 909 into a Cine9, the hardware is different. At least there is more involved than just a controller swap.
I have seen, or better, heard a Cine9 that had its controller replaced with a 909 controller, and the Cine9 was still dead quiet.

As long as the scanfrequency is not that high, by design the 909 (alias the Cine9) can function with increased operating temperature, because of the lowered airspeed in a Cine9. In fact, the reason why the max H-scanfreq. in the Cine9 is lowered from 180kHz to 135kHz is to reduce heat dissipation from the projector.

The easiest mod might be to just lower the voltage to each individual fan by adding a properly dimensioned resistor in the positive voltage line. Getting the value of the resistor right is crucial as temperatures inside must not increase too much, or failures might happen. Although I have to guess how the aggressive fan control responds to the lowered air speed in the projector. So you are really on your own here, and you have to know exactly what you are doing. A broken 909 is the last thing you want, as they can be insanely expensive to repair.

Easiest, and safest is to build a hush box and keep room temperature low.

ecrabb · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject:

I would agree with erring on the side of caution considering how expensive parts are for the 909, but just thought I'd throw one little tidbit into the discussion.

As was mentioned, the 909 was designed for industrial/commercial environments... Warm room temps, high brightness/contrast, high resolution and refresh (1600x1200/60p+) and lots of geometry dialed in for funky RP and off-axis installs. There's certainly a lot of over-engineering built-in when running it in an HT environment, so sensible mods would probably be pretty safe. But, as is always pointed out in threads about fans, hush boxes, geometry, etc. - the easier you are on the projector, the longer it will last and more trouble-free it will be.

I'd tend to agree with r.bauer... If I had the money invested in a 909, I'd look toward measures that wouldn't involve modifying the projector itself. If at all possible, the hush box makes the most sense and would probably be most effective, anyway.

SC

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject:

Tritto in agreement with the above. There are currently NO spare parts for the 909/Cine 9 that I know of, and Barco's prices are insane. THat will change down the road, but if you kill a board now due to heat related issues, it will be a very costly repair.

**kal** · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:10 am Post subject:

And it's not really a black and white "you'll kill a board with too much heat" either - running the boards too hot will cause things to drift and age faster. So even if you don't kill it today, you're shortening the lifespan.

From what I understand the Cine9 has the standard barco speed limiting fan control - the hotter it runs, the faster the fans will run. If it's like other Barco's, there's a thermistor (temp controlled resistor) in a sub-board off the SMPS which controls how fast the fans run. The 909 runs the fans at full speed all the time from what I understand as other have mentioned it's usually installed in industrial situations (flight sims, etc).

I would probably work on quieting it down a bit, and hushbox it too. But I would take a TON of temperature readings both before and after from just about every heat sink in the projector to make sure nothing was running any hotter. A good hushbox with forced ventilation will cool a projector better than just using the built-in in fans. My hushbox is like this and my projector runs cooler with the hushbox closed than with it open.

Kal

r.bauer · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 280 Location: The Netherlands

Both the 909 and Cine9 have three fans in the rear. The center fan cools the Hor.defl. module and the fan only turns on when the temperature in this module increases above a certain threshold. It also fairly quickly stops spinning when the module has cooled down and the cycle starts all over again.
About the other two fans I don't know what fan control they have, and if it is linear with temperature as other Barco's have. But when they spin, they all have a higher starting rpm than the Cine9 fans, hence the suggestion to simply lower each fans individual voltage a little. Again I must warn for possible damage, it is just an idea.

It might be possible to start with the center fan as it clearly has a noticable fan control (on-off, maybe even speed control) and the effects of a voltage drop to the fan can be easily monitored.

Note: Lowering Hor-scan frequency will lower the projectors power consumption. Don't use a high scan frequency, like 1080p@96hz if it isn't required.

Maybe someone with a Cine9 is willing to take voltage measurements of each fan when the projector is cold at startup so they can be compared to 909 fan voltage. Also note the make and model number of the fans. Good pictures of the fan's in the rear, with the metal plate might also help.
Something like this:

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15275.0;attach=2313;image

@Kal,
Image doesn't work properly.

[Kal: That's because it's not an image but a link - the site loads the image (there's no direct access to the JPG/PNG/GIF). I removed the [IMG] tags. People will just have to click on the link].

**kal** · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject:

Why the metal plate? It's directly behind the fans so that the air has to hit the plate and change direction. That's going to cause turbulence which creates noise. If you remove the plate and let the air flow straight I'd think it would be quieter.

Kal

martinamv · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Germany

Hey there,

thanx for your advices. It's always good to know, that you are not alone with your problems.

Just a second ago, i started to build a hushbox for that big beauty. I think, it will work fine for
me. Those SilenX fans will then be used to blow out the hot air: So, they are at least good for
something Smile

Best wishes,

Martin

**kal** · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:27 pm Post subject:

martinamv · Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Germany

Hello kal,

now, that i have finished working on that hushbox...

Yes, it works fine and the temps inside the 909 are definately lower
than without that box. I'm using 3 of those big SilenX fans and for
this purpose, they are just perfect. You cannot hear them. 2 of the 3
are working in back and 1 in front just between the 2 original ones.

The 909 is working with less noise, because it is running at lower
temps. If have tested this yesterday for about 12 hours. You can even
touch those heat sinks (without burning your fingers Smile

).

Okay, all together, it is not dead quiet, but it is quite close to that.

Best wishes,

Martin

**kal** · Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject:

Glad it worked out! I'd still be careful and make sure to take temperatures of many of the heat sinks before and after just to be safe. The 909 is a nice machine - you don't want to fry it!

Kal